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Operating Systems Portables Software Windows Hardware

A Windows CE Shell For Netbooks 150

Posted by timothy from the why-why-why-why-would-anyone-want-that dept.
nerdyH writes "Netbooks such as the Acer Aspire One and Lenovo Ideapad S9 usually ship with SSD storage and the Linux operating system in low-end configurations, or else with hard drives and Windows XP Home at the higher end of the market. Therefore, customers who want a "Windows experience" have no choice but to shell out for extra RAM and disk storage, potentially impacting battery life. Perhaps not for long. Quarta Mobile says its open-source (yes, open source) "MID-Shell for Windows Embedded CE 6.0" provides a Microsoft-based alternative to Linux for low-end devices with SSDs (solid state disks)."
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A Windows CE Shell For Netbooks More

A Windows CE Shell For Netbooks

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  • Who would want that? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 18, 2008 @06:44PM (#25063079)

    If you want Windows, don't you want "real" Windows, to run all the programs you're accustomed to? Windows CE is the suck.

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by martinw89 ( 1229324 )

      That's a good point. As an alternative to Linux, it's only benefit is a semi familiar interface and some windows apps. I bet a bunch of users would be confused why their favorite programs don't work on "Windows".

      • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

        by i_liek_turtles ( 1110703 )
        Nonsense! I can still run all the programs I use at home, like Pidgin, the GIMP, and Firefox! It's just like Windows!

      • Re:Who would want that? (Score:4, Informative)

        by SQLGuru ( 980662 ) on Thursday September 18, 2008 @07:03PM (#25063329) Homepage Journal

        My Windows Mobile smart phone runs quite a few programs that you'd desire. It supports .Net (compact framework), so development isn't that different than desktop apps. I'm actually surprised that there aren't MORE Netbooks going the Windows Mobile route vs the XP route. I'm sure the license cost is similar or lower and the hardware footprint is significantly less (my HTC Wizard does fairly well with a 195MHz processor: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTC_Wizard [wikipedia.org] imaging what it could do with a 1GHz Atom). I would also include Andriod in that line of thinking.....once it gets released in some other commercial form.

        Layne

        • Re:Who would want that? (Score:5, Informative)

          by roc97007 ( 608802 ) on Thursday September 18, 2008 @09:00PM (#25064771) Journal

          > My Windows Mobile smart phone runs quite a few programs that you'd desire.

          My Windows Mobile smartphone crashed and hung more often than my Windows XP desktop, required frequent reboots, and would not reliably make a noise at an incoming call. My expectation of a solid state laptop-like device is to be more reliable than my PC, not less.

          For example, Windows Mobile seems to want to keep your applications persistent after you've dismissed them, apparently for faster starting when you go back to them later. This tends to cause the device to run slower and slower over time, requiring the user to periodically go into the task manager and kill apps, or, if they're not a total geek, just punch the reset button and wait through yet another reboot. It's design decisions like this (and many others) which makes Windows Mobile such a miserable experience if you try to use it for anything other than the built-in applets that are fed by Activesync.

          Parenthetically, I don't understand the vendors who are trying to paste an iPhone-like interface on top of Mobile 6. Like that's going to fix it. Mind you, having to punch Start... wait for the GUI to catch up... navigate... wait... navigate again... choose application... can get tedious, but it is not, by far, the only issue.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by SQLGuru ( 980662 )

            I use MagicButton. It turns the X into a real close button. Problem solved. I'm not sure who your vendor is/was, but it seems HTC has got a pretty good handle on making Windows Mobile devices. All of the ones I've seen work well.

            3rd party apps I've installed and used:
            various games
            various golf score programs
            MagicButton
            Code I wrote myself
            Media players -- who needs a dedicated media player when your phone + an SD card will carry it all for you....even MP4's
            etc.

            Layne

        • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

          by miknix ( 1047580 )

          (my HTC Wizard does fairly well with a 195MHz processor: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTC_Wizard [wikipedia.org] [wikipedia.org] imaging what it could do with a 1GHz Atom).

          Really? I also have a HTC wizard, and the embedded windows mobile really sucks.
          Mobile IE is totally useless, the wifi networks interface is very incomplete and sucks.
          Active sync is totally resource intensive.
          There is little you can do with mobile Office.
          In all the windows mobile default applications, only the mail client does the job.
          Besides useless applications, the windows mobile kernel is always crashing.
          Looking to non-default applications, Mobile Opera its very cool but it totally nukes the device memor

          • Re:Who would want that? (Score:4, Insightful)

            by SQLGuru ( 980662 ) on Friday September 19, 2008 @08:18AM (#25069443) Homepage Journal

            I can't seem to figure out why some many people (usually MS haters) claim that Windows Mobile crashes consistently. I've had my phone for years and have only had to reset it about 12 times. Windows Mobile likes to keep apps open, but if you get MagicButton or any similar task manager, you can make programs actually close. This improves the performance and the stability quite a bit. And while I haven't done any heavy statistical analysis, I've found the built in Excel to be capable of meeting my needs (quick spreadsheet to track boxes of girl scout cookies sold for my daughter, a spreadsheet to help calculate loan costs of cars when shopping for a new one, etc.). Not a lot of need for Word and PowerPoint, so I can't speak to those.

            Growing up with a C64 and then DOS of all flavors and even Windows 3.x, I'm used to limits of an operating system (and before you raise too many flames, how many programs can you run on an iPhone......). If those limits mean that I can't have 20 programs running at once, I'm ok with that. If you live within the limits, the OS is usually very stable and performant. Sure Windows Mobile isn't the worlds greatest OS, but I don't think it's as bad as the bashers like to claim. I think that it's smaller requirements would make it perfect for a NetBook because, let's face it, a NetBook isn't supposed to be your only computer. It's supposed to be something that is portable to be connected anywhere and allow for limited work. My phone (HTC Wizard) is already capable of meeting those basic needs and the newer versions (HTC Touch, HTC [next]) even more so.

            Good uses of a Netbook:
            Taking notes - Can do with Word Mobile
            Surfing the web - Can do with IE (really needs a better browser, though it does technically work -- I've read Slashdot with my phone)
            Playing music / video - TCPMP
            Play games - yep.....Nethack, anyone: http://www.nethack.org/v343/ports/download-wince.html [nethack.org] or maybe Doom http://handheld.softpedia.com/get/Games/Action/Doom-for-Pocket-PC-9834.shtml [softpedia.com] or Quake http://handheld.softpedia.com/get/Games/Action/Quake-3-Arena-CE-22440.shtml [softpedia.com]

            No Flash support beyond v8 yet (http://download.macromedia.com/pub/flash/updates/8/flashlite2/fl8_flashlite2_1_update.exe), but I would expect it to be supported soon.

            Basically, everything I would do with a NetBook works on my phone. Just without the larger screen and the laptop footprint (I've got a real keyboard). For that matter, it even already supports pen input (including OCR), so you could make a convertible NetBook fairly easily.

            Layne

        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by Cyberax ( 705495 )

          Windows CE has a lot of stupid limitations. For example, it is limited only to 32 processes and total address space is limited to something like 64Mb (not sure about that).

          It's incredibly easy to hit these limits on modern mobile phones. And don't even think about netbooks with fast ATOM CPUs and lots of RAM.

          • For example, it is limited only to 32 processes and total address space is limited to something like 64Mb (not sure about that).

            Can't say about processes, but considering that there are WM devices out in the market with 128Mb and 256Mb RAM (e.g. HTC Touch), I don't think the second limitation is still true.

        • My Windows Mobile smart phone runs quite a few programs that you'd desire. It supports .Net (compact framework), so development isn't that different than desktop apps. I'm actually surprised that there aren't MORE Netbooks going the Windows Mobile route vs the XP route.

          Well, if constructors opted for Windows CE, they would pick it because "Windows" is a recognised brand which would have some success due to its marketability.

          BUT here lies your problem : people would flock to it because there's "windows" written on it. But then deception and outcry will follow, as the same people who picked it up because "Windows" is written on it, are the people who would want to use their stock Office, stock PhotoShop and whatever else stock-win32/full .NET application on it.

          Windows CE an

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by LWATCDR ( 28044 )

          Okay but why?
          Your OS choice is usually driven by what software you need to run.
          1. Windows Mobile right now lacks a good standards complaint web browser. Mobile IE is pretty limited.
          2. Flash support is limited to version 7 and I think only runs on the ARM cpu.
          3. Drivers. Windows mobile drivers are few and far between. A lot more hardware is supported under Linux.

          Linux on the X86 has a huge number of advantages over Windows Mobile. Flash support, several full browsers, better hardware support, and larger soft

      • Windows Apps (Score:3, Informative)

        by nurb432 ( 527695 )

        *Very* few windows apps you mean. Especially now since mainstream embedded windows is on embedded XP now.

    • Re:Who would want that? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by jmorris42 ( 1458 ) * <{jmorris} {at} {beau.org}> on Thursday September 18, 2008 @06:58PM (#25063261)

      > If you want Windows, don't you want "real" Windows...

      Exactly. The only reason to suffer with a Microsoft OS is the applications. And on a netbook the big one is the browser. The cut down thing they call IE on WinCE isn't going to be much competition whem stacked up against Firefox on Linux.

    • Re:Who would want that? (Score:5, Funny)

      by uassholes ( 1179143 ) on Thursday September 18, 2008 @07:36PM (#25063811)
      Do they get the dog that wags his tail when you search? If not, it's not real windows.

    • Re: (Score:2, Troll)

      by JamesP ( 688957 )

      There is one very important detail

      Windows CE for desktop PCs SUCK.

      Case in point, the AMD "lunchbox" that came out a couple of years ago. The thing was AWFUL.

      And why is that??

      Windows CE only allow full-screen windows. There is no concept of overlapping windows / resizing / moving.

      For a mobile phone it's quite OK. But for a PC...

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by amdpox ( 1308283 )
      Yes. CE defeats the purpose of having Windows... sure, it's as close as you can get to Windows on a PDA or phone, but on a device thhat's perfectly capable of running XP? I can't see it taking off, as in my experience it's a pretty poor platform (though I have only experienced the "Windows Mobile" incarnations). It's a different kernel, and can't run Windows applications unless they've been specifically ported, which removes the one advantage Windows has on a device like this to new users - I think lightwei

  • Linux on the low end? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by sloanster ( 213766 ) <ringfan@@@mainphrame...com> on Thursday September 18, 2008 @06:46PM (#25063099) Journal

    Screw that, I want linux on the high end. That's right, I want the best hardware you got, and I want it with linux. capice?

    • Re:Linux on the low end? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by spiffmastercow ( 1001386 ) on Thursday September 18, 2008 @06:54PM (#25063217)
      damn right! Seriously, why is it that I can't find a sub-notebook that doesn't charge MS tax for anything beyond the low end model?

      • Re: (Score:1, Interesting)

        by Anonymous Coward

        Seriously, why is it that I can't find a sub-notebook that doesn't charge MS tax for anything beyond the low end model?

        Here is a 9" screen sub-notebook with a 60GB hard disk where the MS tax is an additional cost, such that the machine can be ordered with Ubuntu and without the MS tax.

        http://www.pioneercomputers.com.au/products/configure.asp?c1=3&c2=12&id=2696 [pioneercomputers.com.au]

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by ignavus ( 213578 )

        I guess Bill had a quiet word with them about how much they like their business and wouldn't it be a shame if it went bust because of a sudden rise in Windows licence costs across their whole non-netbook range.

        In Australia the Linux 10" eeepc is more expensive than the Windows one because they will only sell the Linux one with about twice as much SSD storage as the Windows box ... even though Linux requires less space, not more, than Windows. It is *deliberately* anti-competitive - designed to make Linux un

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by nbert ( 785663 )
      There are very good howtos online describing the steps to get Linux running on such devices. For me that's the fun part.

      Nevertheless I totally see a reason to be upset about this, because we'll pay for something we don't want at all. As long as I can get the same device witch Linux installed at a cheaper price it's totally fine to me. Even if the Linux version is very poorly preconfigured - it is easy to change that. It's not like Vista laptops run perfectly fine with all the tools the manufacturer of the

    • Re:Linux on the low end? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by glittalogik ( 837604 ) on Thursday September 18, 2008 @08:35PM (#25064451)

      Amen, I want Linux on the high end too. So I went and built myself something reasonably high-end: ASUS P5Q3 Deluxe mobo, Intel Q6600, 4GB of DDR3 RAM, 512MB 9800GT graphics card...so it's not the absolute shizzle but it's the best machine I've ever owned. Put it all together, and have spent the week since discovering just how shocking support is for P45 chipset motherboards still - primarily the ASUS P5xx boards apparently, but MSI and others seem to have serious issues too.

      So far, the best result I've gotten is to successfully boot an Ubuntu 8.04.1 LiveCD (which will only happen with AHCI enabled, otherwise nothing) and run the installation. After that, nothing, can't even get GRUB to load. 8.10 with latest kernel apparently might do the job when it's released, but as of now (Alpha 5) it won't load at all.

      So maybe I'm straying slightly offtopic but I've got karma to burn and here's as good a place as any to ask: what distro should I be trying for newish, high-endish hardware support? openSUSE? Gentoo? PC-BSD? Just wait for Intrepid's final release? I went from XP to Ubuntu about four years ago and haven't ever had occasion to try any of the others but I'm open to suggestions...

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by markdavis ( 642305 )

        If people respond, you will probably get suggestions for just about everything out there. I would suggest trying Mandriva. If the problems you are having is with the kernel, then it is likely switching distros is not going to help. You will just have to wait for and hope for eventual support.

        But the real issue is that you should have researched Linux compatibility of your hardware BEFORE buying!
        When you shop for tires for your car, you typically make sure you are looking at ones that are the correct size

        • But the real issue is that you should have researched Linux compatibility of your hardware BEFORE buying!

          You're absolutely right. Ubuntu had previously played nice with every piece of hardware I ever threw at it since Warty came out, with the sole exceptions of a winmodem that came with my first PC and a $5 webcam I ordered online whilst drunk last year (when the cam arrived, the receipt showed that I'd populated the comments/instructions field on the checkout page with "credit card + drunkdrunkdrunk = wheee!"). I guess I'd started getting complacent.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by raddan ( 519638 )

          But the real issue is that you should have researched Linux compatibility of your hardware BEFORE buying!

          This is actually harder than it seems. Take the Intel PRO Wireless 3945ABG chipset. Pretty common at the moment. There's even an OSS driver, and Hey!, the project is even supported by Intel. Sounds like it works great, right? Unfortunately, closer inspection reveals that lots of people are still doing workarounds using NDISwrapper.

          The only OS that I've been able to reasonably do the pre-research with is OpenBSD. This is probably because there's ONE OpenBSD, so if they say it works, it probably doe

      • what distro should I be trying for newish, high-endish hardware support? openSUSE?

        If you really want Ubuntu, the best place to look is in the Ubuntu forums. (and yes, I know this looks like RTFM, but the forums ARE very helpful). A quick search [ubuntuforums.org] shows that your NVIDIA 9800 GT card causes problems with the default kernel in 8.04.

        I personally don't like Ubuntu's fussiness with hardware and would suggest trying Mandriva Spring or OpenSUSE 11.

        • I love the Ubuntu Forums, but of course I tend to look on there after something starts causing problems more often than before.

          I'll give OpenSUSE a shot tonight, and have a crack at Mandriva if that doesn't work...

      • Give Slackware A Shot (Score:3, Informative)

        by Gazzonyx ( 982402 )
        Try Slackware, I've yet to see a box that can't run Slack. I have had AHCI issues with the NForce4 chipset, though and I had to hang around kernel 2.6.21.5 (only because fixing it meaning breaking iSCSI in the kernel - which was a deal breaker for my NAS box). Use the 2.6 huge kernel on install, it's got the kitchen sink and a bag of chips.

        Then make sure to get your drivers right from NVidia (BTW, isn't the 9800GT one of the 'plagued' NVidia cards? I'd keep that thing cool if I were you) and you shoul

        • Awesome advice, thanks! I'm keeping an eye on the card, but it was dirt cheap and has yet to get above 32C just doing desktop stuff.

          I'm totally happy to use KDE - I tried it out with Kubuntu 7.10 and loved it but stability issues killed it for me. I was going to wait another point release or two of KDE4 before I try it again, but now's as good a time as any to experiment.

      • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

        by m50d ( 797211 )
        Gentoo - it's that little bit more up to date that makes all the difference. Working beautifully on my P45 motherboard right here.

    • I don't get why the author said that the HDD models were the higher end. SSD is more than HDD in most cases.

      For the EEEPC, you can either get 12GB SSD and XP or 20GB SSD and Linux. From what I recall from math class, 20 > 12 and from what I understand of computers, more hard disk space is better than less hard disk space, and SSDs use less power than HDDs. More battery life is better than less battery life.

      The statement about XP being for higher end machines is spin, IMO.

  • o_0 (Score:5, Interesting)

    by David Gerard ( 12369 ) <slashdot.davidgerard@co@uk> on Thursday September 18, 2008 @06:51PM (#25063173) Homepage

    Why yes, I want a WINDOWS experience. It will involve bending shoes together [today.com]. Or something.

    What on earth? Windows CE is a fabulous example of software that sells in magazines and looks good on feature lists but basically doesn't bloody work. There's a reason the accursed iPhone is so popular, and especially so with anyone who's suffered a WinCE phone and done the wince of WinCE.

    • More usefully: I see there's Familiar Linux [handhelds.org] for ARM-based WinCE handhelds - a tweaked Debian for ARM - but it doesn't appear to have been updated for a year.

      • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

        by glittalogik ( 837604 )

        From what I understand of Debian, I'd hazard a guess that the lack of updates is because it worked perfectly a year ago =p

    • Well, not quite (Score:5, Informative)

      by Weaselmancer ( 533834 ) on Thursday September 18, 2008 @08:15PM (#25064239)

      It does work. Same way a brick flies, but it does work. (Disclaimer: I'm a Windows CE developer by trade)

      You're looking at the wrong market. Around CE 3.0 when SmartPhone came out, yeah. That completely sucked. Hardly worked at all.

      Windows CE's market share is in industrial devices that need to talk to Windows desktops. And PDAs. That's why it sells. It's an extension of the MS monopoly into the embedded market space. If you need to get data from a widget to a Windows box, you use Windows CE. At least that's the sales pitch, anyways.

      Back on topic, CE on a Netbook? Yeah - no thanks. It would be no different than a PDA. Just bulkier.

      • One of the sites to watch the growing netbook trend that I find useful is here [liliputing.com]. A few days ago they had an entry for a *really* cheap WinCE "netbook" (see here [liliputing.com]. (Ok the price is probably if you buy 10k units, but it does look a nice cheap way of getting a CE box for development).

        Andy

      • >Back on topic, CE on a Netbook? Yeah - no thanks.
        >It would be no different than a PDA. Just bulkier.

        Whilst I concur with your first point regarding CE I feel the need to counter your second point on a general leve. I WANT a netbook that is no different to bulkier PDA, i.e. A PDA with wifi and a keyboard. That's all I've been wanting since I retired my 8MB Psion Revo a few years back. I'm planning on getting one of these for xmas: http://www.littlelinuxlaptop.com/ [littlelinuxlaptop.com]

        (I already have a Server hosting all m

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by oakgrove ( 845019 )
      As the less than thrilled owner of a Windows Mobile 5 pda phone (HTC Starcom), I couldn't agree more with your assessment. This thing is a complete piece of crap and the crappiness begins and ends with the OS.

      It constantly locks up requiring a reset. And when I reset it, it's a crapshoot whether it will hang on the boot screen requiring me to remove and reinsert the battery. I constantly have to recalibrate the touch screen or my touch gets farther and farther off the mark. No command line. No USB host

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by mspohr ( 589790 )
      I have to agree that WinCE unfortunately just doesn't work. I've had both a PocketPC and a GPS system that used WinCE. Both of these devices were dog slow and crashed frequently. Absolutely useless and frustrating to use. I wouldn't recommend to use WinCE for anything. It really needs a lot of work.

  • Limits (Score:4, Insightful)

    by bastafidli ( 820263 ) on Thursday September 18, 2008 @06:52PM (#25063193) Homepage
    Whats the point of CE when you have limited amount of useful applications for it. You get a netbook to limit the stuff you have to carry around, not to limit the number of things you can do with it.

    • To play devil's advocate to this and one of my previous posts in this topic:

      CE at least has Mobile Office 2007, something that traditionally Windows users might find comforting.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Psychotria ( 953670 )
      The thing is there is no fu***** point. The article is basically an advertisment by someone who has no clue about computers. There is no way I would use CE when there are embedded OSs out there that put CE to shame. Do you see CE as a digital camera OS? No.

      • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

        by David Gerard ( 12369 )

        You've now put into my head the notion of sex toys running Windows CE.

        BAD TOUCH!

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by TheRaven64 ( 641858 )
        You are assuming the buying public has some understanding of computers. In general, there are three sets of customers:
        1. People who actually know what they want (which might, in theory at least, be Windows).
        2. People who want 'it to run Microsoft' because that's what they've heard of.
        3. People who just want 'a computer.'

        The third set are easy - you can sell them whatever they can afford, as long as it looks easy to use. The first set are easy too - you either have the product they want, or you don't. They'r

  • Good (Score:5, Insightful)

    by TheRaven64 ( 641858 ) on Thursday September 18, 2008 @06:57PM (#25063245) Journal
    The reason existing netbooks (doesn't whoever bought Psion own that trademark) suck so much is that they're using bloated x86 chips from a company that doesn't understand the mobile market. Put a Cortex A8 SoC in them and we'll see some real battery life from the form factor. CE gives manufacturers a 'safe' operating system to put on them, and the rest of us can replace it with something more sensible afterwards.

    • i was thinking this, ever since dell basically put arm next to the x86 for the long life laptop, as plenty of netbooks arnt using windows they can use whatever arch they want. why not just produce an arm netbook, sure it will probably have to run konqueror or something instead of firefox, but it could have a battery life of days not hours. gnash can do youtube now, so apart from a flash games your not missing much. you can browse the web, write docs, read emails, etc?

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by bersl2 ( 689221 )

        They still want an x86 computer, so that they can still sell to people who want Windows, never mind if it chugs along slowly.

        • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

          by Z34107 ( 925136 )

          They still want an x86 computer, so that they can still sell to people who want Windows, never mind if it chugs along slowly.

          Actually, that's pretty true. I got the Acer One Note thingy mentioned in the article. It came with a Linux on training wheels kinda thing ("Linpus," they called it) that vaguely resembled an XP desktop with 4 buttons. I booted it, turned it off, and installed memory (had to remove the keyboard and the motherboard to install the memory underneath the motherboard!) and put the who

          • Re: (Score:1, Insightful)

            by Anonymous Coward

            Point of this long, rambling post: If you're willing to tweak things a little bit (this is /., so tweaking Windows shouldn't be a problem) you can make Windows absolutely scream on these webnotes. (Bluee screen of death notes?) Windows isn't that bloated that it won't run on an Atom.

            If you undertake the exact same "tweak it a bit" courtesy for Linux (such as running it with a filesystem designed for flash disks, such as YAFFS, JFFS or LogFS) you can also make Linux absolutely scream on these webnotes.

            What i

            • With Windows, once you have tweaked it, you then have to install anti-virus anti-malware subscription ware which will kill all the hard-won performance, and then you have to outlay as much again as you originally paid for the whole machine to get any Windows proprietary applications onto it. Then over time your registry will clog, and the performance will degrade further.

              That's just not true any more. So long as you set up an admin account and make all your everyday accounts Limited Users, you don't need any anti-virus/anti-spyware/3rd party firewall software. Our family machine has been running XP like that for nearly two years and it still boots as fast as it did just after installation.

              We dual-boot with Ubuntu Hairy Hardon and frankly I don't see any speed difference on the two systems. I do like Ubuntu for Synaptic and easy access to loads of free (as in beer) usefu

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by Z34107 ( 925136 )

              Especially not true with the way I set mine up. EWF means I can download all the virus infections I want, and simply reboot to get rid of them. I don't run any anti-virus software on mine, which admittedly would probably kill its performance.

              Not that Linux can't scream, but I strongly prefer Office 2007 over open office, Outlook over Thunderbird, and enjoy playing videogames a bit too much to justify an equal amount of tweaking on the Linux side. I'd dual-boot for kicks, except on the netbooks HD space i

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by bersl2 ( 689221 )

            (this is /., so tweaking Windows shouldn't be a problem)

            u_u

            How about no. Windows to me is fucking opaque: I never understood what it's doing. I figure that Windows retarded my understanding of how computers work by at least five years.

            So I'll take my Slackware, thankyouverymuch.

    • Just how much legacy stuff is there in the x86 architecture?
      The 8086 had only 29,000 transistors. When you have 200million or so transistors on a modern x86 CPU is it really the legacy features causing the power usage?

      The new Intel Atom Z540 which uses an average power of 220mW at 1866Mhz shows that the x86 can be just as efficient when given the same power saving features as the other architectures.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Atom_microprocessors [wikipedia.org]

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by TheRaven64 ( 641858 )
        The instruction decoder is a big power drain (you can't turn it off, because it's always in use). This is around 10% of the core of an Atom, while on ARM chips it's a tiny proportion. Modern x86 chips need to do a lot of tricks to make up for the poor architecture. Since they have so few registers, they keep the top few cache locations in hidden registers, so they need to add a bit more logic to handle turning push and pop instructions into register read and writes, then back in to memory accesses when t
    • "they" in the sense of the big guys, aren't likely to do so anytime soon; but there are some random pacific rim outfits that you've never heard of that are shipping EEE PC-esque boxes based on ARM or MIPS:
      http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS9413803799.html [linuxdevices.com]
      http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS2361851277.html [linuxdevices.com]
      http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS4650708621.html [linuxdevices.com]
      http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS9047481010.html [linuxdevices.com]

      Somewhat more expensive; but in my opinion more exciting, is Pandora: http://openpandora.org/ [openpandora.org]

    • There's no ARM 10? port for Windows.

      Speaking of which, there's also no LEG port for Windows.

      Windows Lusers will be hopeless (Ubuntu is bloated and doesn't support ARM).
      Maybe the year of the Linux Desktop was meant for netbooks!

  • Finally!! (Score:5, Funny)

    by krazytekn0 ( 1069802 ) on Thursday September 18, 2008 @06:59PM (#25063281) Homepage Journal
    2008 could be the year of Windows on the net-top!

  • This would be a great idea. I have a Viewsonic ViewPad SuperPDA from about eight years ago. It's one of the first tablet form-factor PC's and it was powered by CE. Resistive 800x600 touchscreen with USB host, PCMCIA, CompactFlash, integrated sound, VGA-out adapter. I have a wireless network card in there and I can use a USB keyboard along with the stylus for mouse input and it's really nice. What makes me mad about my device is no option to upgrade that I can figure out/hack. I would love to install t

  • web browser (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Yold ( 473518 ) on Thursday September 18, 2008 @07:10PM (#25063403)

    From my smartphone experiences, there isn't even a decent web browser for the WinCE platform. Opera sucks slightly less than IE mobile. About half the websites I tried to use functioned correctly. Fahgeddabout it

  • The Eee, surely the first netbook anyone would look at, ships with an SSD and Windows in what is probably the most popular of the configurations. It's true that the barrel-scraping lowest-end 256MB configurations some manufacturers offer (see the Aspire One or the Mini-Note) are restricted to Linux only, but it's not like you're left wanting for 512MB XP machines. And based on available data, the disk storage options have a negligable effect on battery life anyway. Extra RAM certainly doesn't harm run time.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by StrategicIrony ( 1183007 )

      The Asus ships with a base of 512MB and is upgradeable to 1.5GB out of the box.

      Personally, I got the Linux version and upgraded it. Same specs as the EEE 901 but almost $200 less and an extra 512MB of RAM. :-)

  • you could run linux ;)

    For the humor impaired I'm aware that vmware does not run on CE.

  • It's actually shared source licensed.
    http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS6932977445.html [linuxdevices.com]
    "The company has thus far declined to submit the license for approval by the Open Source Initiative as an open-source license."

  • I was going to reply suggesting something like an extended version of Windows XP Embedded [wikipedia.org] when I noticed MS claims to be coming out with a new OS that seems like it may fit the bill well (assuming it doesn't end up bloated).

    Personally I picked up a Linux Acer One and through Ubuntu [ubuntu.com] (will probably switch to Gentoo now that I have a distcc build server set up) on it and am very pleased, but I can definitely understand how someone comfortable and familiar with Windows could want a net book with features lik

    • I can definitely understand how someone comfortable and familiar with Windows could want a net book with features like a solid state drive and not want Linux.

      Except, of course, the user will quickly discover that "Windows", "IE" and "Office" that he gets with Windows CE are completely different, far inferior products that merely share the name and manufacturer with those he expected. And he wouln't know that Linux desktop, web browser, office packages and other software is actually closer to what he expected, because he didn't get Linux intalled or even dual-booting.

      Sounds more like a scam to prevent users' exposure to Linux, with both users and netbook manufact

  • Windows CE was developed from the ground up as a unique solution for embedded computing.
    It is not Windows.
    It is not even Win16 or Win32.
    Windows CE is its own thing entirely.
    The only thing Windows CE shares with Windows is source compatibility with most of the Win32 API.

    Windows CE will make these miniature laptops shine.

    I'm bothered that I didn't think of this before.
    With all the good press that Linux gets by default, it is nowhere near an embedded OS. Those embedded systems have become more like full compu

    • Re: (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      With all the good press that Linux gets by default, it is nowhere near an embedded OS.

      Yea. You'll have to convince all the NAS manufacturers and router manufacturers that took a look at Win CE and decided to go with Linux.

      I wonder why?

    • Err. I am sorry, but the only reason I bought a netbook is precisely, that they don't actually come with a freaking embedded OS that is useless. You know, I can actually run real software on it...
    • With WINE, Linux and NetBSD are also 'source compatible with most of the Win32 API' so I'm not entirely sure what the advantage of WinCE is, particularly since every existing Wince device seems to support a slightly different subset of Win32, making targeting the OS, rather than the device, pretty much impossible.

  • I don't see the sense in that (Score:3, Insightful)

    by caywen ( 942955 ) on Thursday September 18, 2008 @08:13PM (#25064211)
    Let's see - instead of using an OS that has tons of great software for it, has no licensing fees, and is quickly source-modifiable by the manufacturer, we can instead use an OS that has lots of crappy software for it, costs money, and takes several quarters for the maker to fix bugs. Hmmm, tough one... Also, what part of the "Windows experience" in WinCE is that valuable? Win32 apps don't work on it, so that's out. Can anyone name a good office suite for WinCE? What, is the Start button that awesome? Are WinCE clickable icons so much better than those under Linux UI's? Cmon. Really, as a long time Windows dev and an avid WinMo developer, I just don't see the value for netbook makers.
    • You sort of have a point, but I don't think you've ever actually used the bastardized version of Xandros that comes on an Eee.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by caywen ( 942955 )
        You're right - I haven't used the Eee, but I've used the Acer Aspire and found it to be perfectly good. No CE. You know, I have no specific desire to press a button named "Start" to launch a program. I have no specific need for the "X" button to be in the upper right.

  • They had this form factor of device already.... and running Windows CE. They called them Handheld PC Pros (the Handheld PC were small clamshells).

    Guess what.... they sucked and they flopped. If I want an oversized PDA with an anemic buggy OS, I'll get an old NEC MobilePro 800 off of eBay for $40.

    I had one for a while.... it ended up running NetBSD/hpcmips with a USB Zip drive attached with velcro. I got bored with it about 6 years ago.

    CE really does suck hairy monkey nuts. I had some CE-based thin client

  • Microsoft should stick to making Xboxes, IMHO.

  • Bout damn time (Score:4, Funny)

    by oprahwinfree ( 466659 ) on Thursday September 18, 2008 @08:51PM (#25064677) Homepage

    ...someone gave us an alternative to linux. Everywhere I look, sourceforge, slashdot, linux.com, its all I see, linux, linux, linux.

  • It'll be the same guys installing IE4Linux.

    Those sick, twisted guys.

  • Who, and I seriously mean who on earth would want to install/use windows CE in a market that is already dominated by Linux AND windows XP? Really, windows CE was always this thing that didn't work, and you want it to compete with XP?

  • calling you names from a eeepc with the default linux install.. which impressed me btw.

    i can open any office doc and see flash videos. not to mention code and compile my programs.

    why would you want windows if the vendor is finally taking the trouble of making linux work on the hardware for you?

    weren't all ask slashdot articles in the past about the exact oposite?

  • Shooting themselves in the foot (Score:3, Insightful)

    by anomaly256 ( 1243020 ) on Friday September 19, 2008 @12:52AM (#25066989)
    Why does everyone keep insisting on pushing CE? Any 'low end' x86 device these days is capable of running XPe. And XPe doesn't restrict your application pool to a minimal set of buggy, broken, poorly maintained, half-useful apps the way CE does. Just let it die already! Please, for the love of god let it die! (troll / flamebait / honest opinion from someone who's been forced to use CE for nigh on 10 years... take your pick and mod accordingly)

  • What moron would buy a computer with linux then pay extra to run CE on it instead?
    Thats almost as stupid as 'upgrading' to vista.
     

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