Slashdot Log In
A Turning Point for Touch Screens, Says the NYT
Posted by
timothy
on Sun Aug 24, 2008 12:20 AM
from the they-sure-make-gps-devices-handier dept.
from the they-sure-make-gps-devices-handier dept.
The New York Times has a story up on the suddenly brisk market for touch screens and the devices which can make use of them, which it says "has grown quietly for years, both in commercial applications and in consumer devices." Besides the obvious (the iPhone, and Apple's use of multi-touch generally), the article also mentions the recent inclusion of Israeli company N-Trig's version of multi-touch technology in a Dell notebook computer, and some of the other places you can expect to see touchscreens instead of display-only ones in the near future — if the price drops quickly enough.
Related Stories
This discussion has been archived.
No new comments can be posted.
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
Full
Abbreviated
Hidden
Loading... please wait.
If sci fi movies are anything to go by.. (Score:4, Interesting)
Forget the optimus, what about a touch screen keyboard? Sure, there's no feedback (yet) but the user could change the input style at will, using it as a mouse/tablet/music mixing device etc.
Re:If sci fi movies are anything to go by.. (Score:5, Informative)
art lebedev actually has a concept of one, the optimus tactus. Check it out - http://www.artlebedev.com/everything/optimus-tactus/
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Feedback is really important, but maybe it can be faked.
when i first tried an early iPod (on a store) i wasn't sure if the wheel physically turned or not. it took me several seconds to realize it was only because of the audio feedback, and that wasn't through the earphones, but on a small piezo speaker on the device itself.
it would be interesting to add a small vibrator under a 'screen keyboard', to and have it do a slight 'tick' on each keypress. your fingers would definitely get it, so maybe it would he
Re:If sci fi movies are anything to go by.. (Score:5, Funny)
Of course feedback can be faked ... ask any woman.
Parent
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
There's the Optimus Tactus [artlebedev.com] concept, which is exactly that: a programmable surface that can be any keyboard (or even input device) you want.
In my opinion the real breakthrough for that class of device is going to come when they get haptic feedback to work with multitouch screens. Haptic feedback is when you literally "feel" the virtual buttons. There are some promising advances there.
Re: (Score:2)
In my opinion, the breakthrough will come once we get transparent hands, not before. Until then, our fingers are going to cover up whatever is being displayed, making them ill suited for more than casual input.
As for the original submission, the author seems to forget that there's a vast difference between in-hand devices and larger ones. For one thing, you don't get gorilla arm syndrome from a handheld device. Lumping the two together doesn't work. Increased sales for one type doesn't imply anything fo
Re: (Score:2)
And your typing rate will get down considerably, but then you will at least not have to wait for Slashdot to allow you to post your new message.
Re: (Score:2)
Close. For most touch screen type of thing you really need a touch screen mouse as a tablet - like an overgrown synaptics pad, but with the intelligence of a touch screen.
Move you fingers on the pad and watch the screen. That should be intuitive enough. Sort of thing you would use for media centres etc.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
... and yet people say the iPhone sucks without even knowing what it can do.
I'm surprised that consumers want them... (Score:5, Informative)
I was the design manager on Logitech's Harmony One remote and I fought for a touch screen for the programmable controls - in the past these were physical buttons beside the different controls on the remote. Implementing physical buttons close to an LCD are very difficult to implement correctly. I thought the touch panel would improve the quality of the product and give it much cleaner look to the overall product.
I was half right - it is a gorgeous remote but the touch panel just doesn't match the rest of the remote and the time taken in the mechanical design to product an interface that you don't have to look down at to use. Coupled with the cost of the capacitive touch panel (about 10x what it would cost for poly dome and plastic/elastomer buttons) it really isn't worth it.
I'm very unimpressed with the touch panel for typing on the iPhone and iPod touch so I'm going to be watching to see how companies design their user interfaces to give users as positive an interface as they would have with buttons.
If it's not done well, then I would expect a backlash against touch panels by consumers.
myke
Re: (Score:2)
The Samsung Instinct looks interesting and has a vibration feature to acknowledge button-presses, but that's got to be hard on the battery life.
Re: (Score:2)
Totally agree.
I did one universe touch screen remote control as a school project. It's done by laying a Palm touchscreen on top of a Dot Matrix LCD. Although it looks cool and earn me a A+, but practically it inherits the same problem exactly like what you have describe - touch feedback.
I hope some day someone could invent an touch interface with dynamic texture for touch, just like the dot on the F and J key. I imagine it could be done by micro-heater (like those used in inkjet) which heat up a small bubbl
Re:I'm surprised that consumers want them... (Score:5, Interesting)
Hmm, do you type on one of those regularly?
Yes, the physical typing experience on iPhone is pretty poor, but I find that the auto correction software pretty much makes up for it. I can type just about as fast on iPhone as on another small keyboard with physical buttons, and even though I make horrible typing errors it fixes them on the fly perfectly almost every time. You just have to trust it, just like it says in the video. On the other hand I do sometimes type in another language which is not supported by iphone (Serbian) and the result is a mess. But as long as you are typing regular text (not a lot of names or code or something) in a supported language, the software can go a long way to make use of it on a daily basis fairly bearable. On the other hand, there are considerable advantages in size, weight, flexibility etc in having the keyboard on the screen as needed so perhaps it's worth getting used to it.
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
So giw di tiy tyrb ib tgis autocorrectuib feayiutr?
Re:I'm surprised that consumers want them... (Score:5, Insightful)
And whenever there is a touch panel it will also be clogged by the dirty fingers people have.
Just take a look at some people's keyboards where a large amount of brownish residue of unknown origin is accumulated.
Many remotes also have an accumulation of some residue that you probably don't want to examine further, and by having a touch display you will get that residue even more visible.
Parent
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
for me,w hat would be worth it is context driven menus and buttons on say, somethign similar to a mousepad. I have a physical device i push around to move a cursor, but if i want to do something like, switch tools in Photoshop, I'd just smack the right button on the mousepad and go on my merry way.
Exciting news, but (Score:2, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Customers shouldn't have to rely on a third party addition for this though.
Re: (Score:2)
My only experience with the iPhone is the pubic unit in the local stores -- full of grease from all sorts of people, but when the screen is on, you don't notice a thing. Perhaps it's a different case outside in bright sunlight -- I don't know.
A little too much (Score:4, Insightful)
Over the years I think I've touched my screen a little too much.
Seriously, regarding LCD reliability- has anyone studied it after thousands of touches, some low pressure, some higher pressure? When I touch my LCD screen, it turns dark around my finger. Doesn't look good to me.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
That happens on my laptop, but it doesn't on my iPhone, which has a rigid glass screen that protects the LCD part from fingertip pressure. Unfortunately, not from fingerprints or smudges, though.
How will this effect porn? (Score:5, Funny)
Touch screens should re-vitalize computer based porn. Think of the possibilities.
Re: (Score:2)
That will be something to see on CSI [imdb.com].
The DS? (Score:5, Interesting)
Uh, no, much older than that: Palm Pilot (Score:2)
'nuff said. There were millions sold, and people were using them quite a lot, even for reading ebooks (for example).
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I guess I'm stuck in my mindset. I can still only see the touch screen as a valid method of data input in a few limited capacities. I see it as a nice addition to the POS systems, gaming systems, phones, and maybe some other small consumer gadgets.
I can't envision me, personally, wanting to code using the screen. I can see me wanting to navigate a GPS unit or a building directory with one.
Re: (Score:2)
I agree with you, I don't find touchscreens too useful, either. The trend of installing touchscreens in the Eee PCs, for example, leaves me cold and puzzled.
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah, I wanted to say Nintendo DS as well (started by tagging the article accordingly) but first I wanted to look around for similar posts from others.
In my opinion it was the DS which started the lets-put-touchscreens-everywhere.
Before the DS and at launch many considered it a failure, afterward everyone wanted to join.
iPhone gets way to much credit, sure it may be one of the first units with multitouch and a decent interface making use of it but that's all. It's not the-thing-which-started-touchscreens.
Al
Not a single mention of the DS... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
They have short memory ;)
Re: (Score:2)
There have been prototype designs where you have a screen in front facing your face and then the touch sensetive part on the back of the device. This way you can still press virtual buttons, move around or whatever using your finger tips but more comfortable and on the back of the device and still not cover any of the screen in the front.
A brilliant idea I must say.
pr0n (Score:3, Funny)
What Apple should do. (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Point Of Sale systems (Score:4, Informative)
Touch Screens Are Already Surpassed (Score:2)
I'd much rather have a "laptop" that had no screen at all, and a 1200x1600 head-mounted display instead. Less weight, less power, and easier to use in more situations. ~
Software not Price (Score:2)
The article keeps mentioning price as the driving factor, but I say it's software. I think tablets are hella cool, but until someone designs a must-have Linux app for touch screens, I'm not going to plunk down the money, no matter how small the premium is. However, if someone cooks up something really incredible, I'll pay whatever it takes to have it.
Until the iPhone/DS most touchscreens simply mimicked the existence of regular buttons (think ATMs, POS machines, or the Harmony remote). If somebody puts that
Touch screens suck (Score:2, Funny)
They get more and more greasy as you touch them, so you have to clean them all the time and since cleaning them means touching them you end up having formatted your harddrive or something.
what about the grease factor? (Score:3, Funny)
Human fingers are greasy. Show me a touchscreen that can repel all human grease and then I'll be interested.
Re: (Score:2)
I have only one reasonable application where it may be useful, and that is in info kiosks like the ones you can find at malls and in some shops like Barnes&Noble.
Some kid's games may also benefit from the touch screen, but that's a different issue. And for kids you will need a computer resilient against just about anything a kid can do to the computer which means that it has to be able to withstand being run over by a truck or a tank and still have a working touchscreen.
But as you say - the need for pre
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
All our POS products are based on touchscreen technology. And they work very well.
Of course, on modern POS you don't type in numbers as you used to do in yesteryear - that's why we have barcodes and more recently RFID.
Touchscreens allow you to offer a fully dynamic user interface that adopts to the current situation. It work wells, as long as you do not need to do any sort of more-than-occasional data entry.
Re: (Score:2)
In RTSs a touchscreen will beat a mouse any day :D
Probably also in general OS usage.
Your point may be valid for FPSs but Metroid on the DS works decent using the touchscreen to shoot and the arrow keys for moving around. Though the Wii controller are probably even better since you don't cover your screen any more.
I guess a "light pen" would work, something you could use at a small distance.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Yeah? I think you need to figure out that NOT EVERYONE IS YOU!
Re:bad idea (Score:4, Interesting)
I think you are right, but for the wrong reasons. The same things applies to voice recognition, it will never replace keyboards in the office.
How fatiguing and tedious would it be to talk to your computer all day? Imagine how noisy the office would be.
Likewise, how about using a touchscreen all day? Your arm would feel like it was ready to fall off. Like it or not, a mouse takes little physical effort and lends itself to the sitting position.
Parent
The point is... (Score:2)
to provide the entire interface to the application; the button simply works as an "exit application" button.
Re: (Score:2)
lol, some mac fanatic moderated your very informative post flamebait just because you told the truth (your Linux based Zaurus let you run everything and iPhone tries to prevent you from running everything =P)
Crippled and super expensive, the way of Apple.