OEMs Looking to Ubuntu for Netbook Market

Anon writes "Mark Shuttleworth provides much more detail today about development of the Ubuntu netbook platform, and says OEMs are calling Canonical when they want to start building netbooks. Channelweb notes: 'It's actually a big deal. For example, Dell CEO Michael Dell has been carrying around an early version of a Dell mini-notebook, and referring to it as the device for the next billion Internet users [...] Asus has become an industry rock star by using GNU Linux to power its Eee PC. HP's niche Mini note runs SLED 10 Linux. The iPhone, of course, doesn't run Microsoft software. Is anyone paying attention in Redmond?'"

They are listening

[snl2587 (1177409)]

And here comes the next round from a company on it's way out the door and no longer truly innovating: litigation!

Re:They are listening

[amirulbahr (1216502)]

Which raises the question: What are the competition watchdogs around the world going to do about this?

Here in Australia, ASUS has somehow managed to price its Eee PC 900 with XP Home cheaper than the Linux version by about $50. They claim that it is justified by the difference in storage capacity (12 GB in the XP version versus 16 GB in the Linux one).

This reeks of anti-competitiveness, yet not a word to be heard from the ACCC (Australia's consumer and competition watchdog).

Re:They are listening

[KlomDark (6370)]

I'm right with you on the pansy-ass pussies who are too scared to take a punch to the head. That's not at all what I support guns for. Guns are a last defense against totalitarian government, which is where you're quickly headed in Australia, just a little bit behind the UK.

ASUS Eee PC

[murp (1304761)]

Actually, if you read the latest Distrowatch Weekly [distrowatch.com], they say that Linux on the Eee PC is almost a thing of the past.

Re:ASUS Eee PC

[je ne sais quoi (987177)]

Actually, if you read the latest Distrowatch Weekly, they say that Linux on the Eee PC is almost a thing of the past.

Which is especially strange since the linux version of every model of the eeePC is outselling the windows version on Amazon [amazon.com]. I would say it's the larger hard drive, but the older model linux version is selling better too and it has a slower clock speed than the XP one. I don't know, I don't pay attention to this stuff.

Re:

[tknd (979052)]

A lot of people are buying the linux version for the larger SSD and installing Windows xp themselves.

I've tried the default Xandros linux and it didn't cut it for me. For browsing the net and doing simple things like reading a document it is fine. It will even read your usb thumb drives and other things without issues. But it is hard to customize and does not like you going about installing your own software. I expect that Ubuntu for netbooks will be much easier to customize and will likely be a real repla

Re:ASUS Eee PC

[compro01 (777531)]

No idea about the webcam (friends have the webcamless ones) but the Ubuntu site[1] says it works out of the box, though not with flash (though the Ubuntu site also has a workaround for that).

The wifi requires you to download and build the madwifi driver, but it then works fine. Last I've heard, 8.10 should see it work out of the box.

[1] https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EeePC/Fixes [ubuntu.com]

The link reads like a rant

[symbolset (646467)]

Like the author didn't find the linux eee booth and decided that was a lack of marketing push, a step on the road to deprecating linux on the eee.

I don't see this at all yet, and if I did it would not worry me. There are plenty other and bigger OEMs fishing for the premium experience you get with linux on the netbook now. Asus got an early lead but if they want to throw their advantage away and return to differentiating their product only by price and color that is their right. There are more than enough other mfrs eager to push the mindshare across the threshold and bring about the unchained era of personal computing.

It will be chaotic for a while. That's when the interesting things happen.

Difficult to beat the price

[feranick (858651)]

When user see that they can get more with less money, it's a difficult deal to resist...

Re:Difficult to beat the price

[feranick (858651)]

Must be something typical of NZ. In the US, Linux versions are sold out (check Amazon). while there is plenty available with XP. In addition (reading reviews from real users), Linux version works out of the box, while there is nothing useful in the default installation of XP. It'd be interesting to know what are such things you believe being "wrong".

Re:

[ThePhilips (752041)]

Do not get me wrong - I'm all for Linux. But I guess the mini-notebook producers have put Linux there because they didn't need anybody's permission to do it. First. Second. I think they also tried to provoke M$ to get some bargaining chip in negotiations.

Now that new market have opened, rest assured, M$ will do anything to grab it.

After all they already brought XP from dead...

They needed no permission

[symbolset (646467)]

This is exactly it. Manufacturers are learning that if they ignore the WinTel platform definitions and just give us the good tech that makes sense, we'll gobble it up.

Some of us will even think of new and clever things to do with it. It sounds scary, but that's where you build the brand values that matter in the long run.

Re:ASUS Eee PC

[notdotcom.com (1021409)]

..but if you read Linux Format, the cover story this month is the Eee PC and the Eee 900. From (Linux Format's TFA: "A current poll of Eee users shows that only 29 percent are running MS Windows."

Re:

[VENONA (902751)]

...then you are murdered.

Re:

[petermgreen (876956)]

Linux was the intial factory option on the EEE which was one of the first cheap subnotebooks.

But now on the EEE series windows is availible from the factory and runs very nicely. I would imagine once people realise that for a little more (or even a little less in some cases) they can get the familiar XP and use thier familiar appliacations while also getting the micro form factor and of course avoiding vista the EEEPC 900 with XP will look like a very attractive option.

Re:ASUS Eee PC

[InlawBiker (1124825)]

They're losing because they're complacent and huge.

They do a good job eventually but it's the story of low-hanging fruit. Microsoft is raking is barrels of cash because they can leverage their market position. Now suddenly, BOOM! UMPCs are all the rage. Agile companies like Asus can produce one within a year and Linux is infinitely flexible, especially with Ubuntu on board. They can produce a new distro in a quarter or two.

It would take at least two years with all hands on deck to produce "XP Light" for UMPC's. They know this so they probably subsidized the hardware on the higher-powered EEE to run XP. Problem solved! Besides, they've spent a gazillion dollars gambling on Vista and the trend towards more powerful computers. They don't want to admit they were wrong.

But the price is creeping up towards $600 now. The whole point was to make a $300 'Net surfer you can use from your kitchen.

MS will do their best to not miss this boat but they'll have to subsidize the hardware somehow to bring the price down, or hope people don't mind paying more.

Re:ASUS Eee PC

[gbjbaanb (229885)]

Not just yet, when Intel releases the Atom it is basically designed to run Linux and not Windows. I posted about this a while back from a link on TomsHardware. Basically Intel were screwed by MS last time round with their Origami platform, so this time Intel doing things their way and partnering-but-not-really-partnering with MS.

The only Atom chip that can run Vista, apparently, is the highest end one. The one Intel is releasing with a huge price tag. The others will run a version of Linux.

I think its a good thing, the beginning of the end for MS at the moment, just like IBM or DEC before them, they got too big, too interested in vendor lock-in, and the marketplace shifted away from them.

2008 is the year

[lyml (1200795)]

See, I told you soo; 2008 is the year of linux on the desktop. For real this time.

Re:2008 is the year

[Zombie Ryushu (803103)]

I've commented on this before in a Previous post. We are not trying to bring about the year of Linux, we are trying to prevent the LAST YEAR of Linux.

See: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=572739&cid=23648009 [slashdot.org]

Is anyone paying attention in Redmond?

[sconeu (64226)]

"Is anyone paying attention in Redmond?"

Yes.

At least OLPC [engadget.com] and Asus [engadget.com] are.

If ya think about it..

[TheDarkener (198348)]

It really is pretty simple here - there are those who want overcoded, overprotective, overhyped operating systems. And then, there are those who want to use their computer.

The eee, Netbook remix, ume-launcher and all OSS-friendly friends fit into the latter. Let's face it - the operating system is slowly melting into the background. Vista, for instance, is trying to kick and scream its way back to the front of your widescreen LCD - but sooner or later, people are going to 'ho-hum' them into oblivion, and get on their Intarwebs the easier way.

P.S. lolsauce.

Re:

[TheDarkener (198348)]

I'm referring to those who want to do the basics - e-mail, WWW, maybe some light word processing - on the go.

Does that clarify, Daddy? =p

P.S. lolsauce on the age factor remarks. How petty of someone to assume that people of a certain age group all think a certain way.

Re:If ya think about it..

[RMH101 (636144)]

you know you're enormously in the minority, right? I mean, I'm in there with you, as are a lot of /. readers, but compared to the general public, we're really a very small minority. desktop email/web/photos/mp3s/minor document editing - that's *it* for most people. And who's to say that's wrong?

Re:If ya think about it..

[Locklin (1074657)]

Funny, I write graphics accelerated visuo-motor psychology experiments and collect data using Python, do data analysis in R, and write papers/presentations in LaTeX, all using less of a computer than those netbooks (when I don't feel like being chained to my workstation).

Maybe you are the one who needs to *grow up* and get over the *clickety clickety* toy software.

see how fun pointless insults are?

Oh yeah, get off my lawn!

Re:If ya think about it..

[Nulifier (1227312)]

I don't think you'll be running Photoshop, Matlab, video games, and Maya on a subnotebook. Subnotbooks are more geared towards the things that Linux does really well and it doesn't do any differently from Windows, like surfing the internet, reading email and word processing. The way that you can get people to be open to trying Linux on their main computer is showing them that it is not just a command line (every non-tech person I talk to thinks it is) and that it is as capable of being the full-fledged OS that we all know it is.

Linux critical mass

[poopie (35416)]

I'm sure that Microsoft and most hardware vendors are really not thrilled that customers aren't demanding exponentially faster machines with exponentially more RAM and disk space.

How do you drive customer upgrades to more bloaded OSes when customers are demanding devices with lower cpu/ram specs?

As the price of systems drops from thousands of dollars to hundreds of dollars, having to pay Microsoft hundreds of dollars for OS + Office licensing becomes a non-trivial fraction of total system cost.

Also, you can bet that the hardware manufacturer's profits on a $500 device are razor thin. If they can cut $20 to $100 or more off the cost by using Linux, it's worth it.

So, at this point, I have to wonder whether Microsoft is going to try to converge WinCE code with Vista code for Windows 7 to have a single OS that can run on phones / UMPCs / netbooks / laptops / desktops (or at least the same codebase even if CPUs aren't the same). That's probably going to be hard for Microsoft. I expect they'll try to reimplement apps in silverlight instead.

Re:Linux critical mass

[MightyMartian (840721)]

So, at this point, I have to wonder whether Microsoft is going to try to converge WinCE code with Vista code for Windows 7 to have a single OS that can run on phones / UMPCs / netbooks / laptops / desktops (or at least the same codebase even if CPUs aren't the same). That's probably going to be hard for Microsoft. I expect they'll try to reimplement apps in silverlight instead.

I'm sure that's what they'll want to do, but for Microsoft the chief problem is while everyone else is concentrating on mimimalistic systems whose specs were top-notch six years ago, everything in Microsoft's code base has been going the other way. By the looks of it, they're going to try to reposition Windows XP for low-end systems, because it will run reasonably well on these systems. Vista and Windows 7 are going to be no-shows. There's simply no evidence I can see that suggests that Windows 7 is going to be any less a resource hog that Vista.

And good luck to them recoding for Silverlight. I think they're going to need it.

Stop the mind control

[moderatorrater (1095745)]

Just call it Linux. Calling it Gnu/Linux completely ignores the work that's gone into making Linux a household name. "Linux" is a weird enough name, throwing a little-known water buffalo that nobody knows how to pronounce is disastrous.

Re:Stop the mind control

[TheDarkener (198348)]

Maybe a new name would be best?

How about "Tux & Friends" ? :p

Re:Stop the mind control

[Provocateur (133110)]

GNU/Linux is the new term to use over a bad breakup. Instead of the tired ol'

I faked every one of them!

you can say

And it's GNU/Linux!

then you storm out and slam the door. Can be used with soon-to-be ex-girlfriends and/or soon-to-be ex-bosses. Can be preceded with the phrase "And another thing:", which is more effective when spoken quite emphatically.

Re:Stop the mind control

[pembo13 (770295)]

You can call it what you want. But at least on Slashdot, you should try to be specific.

Re:Stop the mind control

[the_humeister (922869)]

Right, so I should call my system KDE/x.org/GNU/Linux? Otherwise GNU/Linux would just imply that you're just using the command-line interface.

Re:Stop the mind control

[Kjella (173770)]

Don't worry, the consumers will be sufficiently confused by there being ubuntu linux, suse linux, fedora linux, mandriva linux and so on. The most damage it could do is that people mistake it for another distro. At any rate, I think GNU/Linux is either redundant or insufficient. "Linux" is enough to identify it, to describe my system KDE/x.org/GNU/Linux would be in order. I think all four are about equally fundamental to me, I don't think I'd run any other three if one was missing.

Re:Stop the mind control

[xant (99438)]

Christ, could anyone be more self-important than Richard Stallman? There are fifty-two justifications in that FAQ about the fucking name! If you feel that insecure about something, maybe it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

I agree with the GP, stop the mind control already.

Re:

[nawcom (941663)]

It reminds me of when I was a young little shit-ling arguing over whether that megaman X game was "megaman ten" or "megaman-ex". Then megaman X-2 came out. That's when I decided that I will set afire every marketing co-worker I meet.

what does this have to do with ubuntu?

[by Anonymous Coward]

The iPhone, of course, doesn't run Microsoft software. Is anyone paying attention in Redmond?'

if anyone is a bigger offender of lock-in it's apple. why do slashdotters act like it's some kind of victory? is this about a brand or about freedom as you all caw on about?

Re:what does this have to do with ubuntu?

[khellendros1984 (792761)]

I think in the case of Apple, it's the lingering mindset that they're the ailing underdog (which was true for a number of years). I think that as they become larger and stronger, they're losing some of the underdog image, and some people (such as yourself) are beginning to notice that they're just a company, and worse in some ways than the companies we love to ridicule for their success (Microsoft). People as a whole aren't logical. Expecting them to be consistent is further straining credulity, haha.

Re:what does this have to do with ubuntu?

[trouser (149900)]

My macbook is a closed system of open APIs.

The implementation is closed source but the APIs are documented.

My w2k VM is a blackbox. I don't have a clue what it is doing or why or how to change it.

The implementation is closed source but the APIs are documented.

LIMP

[deanston (1252868)]

OEM such as Dell and HP has always relied on MS to tell them when to upgrade hardware and drivers, but all the time half listen and looking for cheap outs, ergo the Vista flop. They've long lost the ability to innovate or motivate on their own nor understand their users. Linux companies ought to beware of established OEM as partners when they come knocking looking for help on that next sale to bail them out. As soon Ballmer slip a 'We'll give you a Windows XZ for a nickel!', the same OEMs will drop Linux on a dime. And will the same vendor offer dedicated support to help novice users upgrade the ever-evolving OS 3 times a year? To ensure long term success and real Linux traction, whoever the Linux company is supplying the netbook OS must keep up the positive user experience for years, not months.

a case of gaining a different victory than sought?

[cptnapalm (120276)]

It seems to be the case that, while the Year of the Linux Desktop may never arive, 2008 may be the Year of the Linux n(ote|et)book.

In trying to compete for the desktop, the open source guys have managed to get a strong foothold on the newest, latest, cheapest portables. Perhaps not the particular victory which was sought, but perhaps victory here would gradually translate into victory on the desktop. If people like what they use most of the time (Linux on the portable), it would be reasonable that they would want the same thing on their own desktops.

Re:

[khellendros1984 (792761)]

I guess what I'm a little worried about is if the market perception becomes that Linux is only good for small portable computers/cell phones/etc, that the larger distros will stop paying as much attention to the desktop.

Interface needs a make over

[Macka (9388)]

I've tried playing around with the Eeee PC, and while I can see the appeal, the GUI experience is a bit sucky. Gnome as is, just wasn't designed with a screen that small in mind, and it shows with the amount of real estate consumed by control buttons and what not in proportion to the data.

What's needed is a kind of minimalist mode, where contol buttons and menus don't get in the way, but can be exposed easily and intuitively as they're required. That's going to be a lot of very hard work.

Re:Interface needs a make over

[Drooling Iguana (61479)]

The EeePC doesn't run Gnome by default, and it does run a very minimalist interface. Not minimalist enough for my tastes, but that should be mitigated when the 9" ones come out.

Re:Interface needs a make over

[tknd (979052)]

Ubuntu netbook remix or whatever it is called is going to address this by providing a new interface designed for small screens. Ars [arstechnica.com] has a bunch of screenshots and more information. The solution isn't perfect but is in a step in the right direction.

This (good interface real estate usage) is one area that I have to give credit to Apple for doing very well. Apple interfaces are very clean and for the most part a good use of screen real estate (minimal window border, fewer menus and toolbars). Gnome tends to be a little on the fat side with buttons, menus, and toolbars but hopefully that will start changing with this new market. I do wish that application developers would stop using the default "file" menus as a crutch to stuff things into or stuffing toolbars with buttons all over the place (gimp, open office, old versions of ms office, many IDEs). On small screens that becomes especially annoying since there is no more room to grow the windows.

Re:

[NullProg (70833)]

I've tried playing around with the Eeee PC, , and while I can see the appeal, the GUI experience is a bit sucky.

I haven't bought one yet because I need the new wider screen for my wife. When I do buy one I'm following the instructions here:

http://wiki.eeeuser.com/ubuntu:eeexubuntu:home [eeeuser.com]

Not to dismiss Gnome or KDE, but try Xfce (No, I am not affiliated).

Enjoy,

Re:

[sznupi (719324)]

Oh my...now even some slashdotters assume that desktop Linux = Gnome?... :/ (Eee Xandros install runs KDE)

Oh well, I guess still better than computer = Windows...

Not just Netbooks...

[dominique_cimafranca (978645)]

Here in the Philippines, we have full-sized laptops going for $400, the cheapest they've ever been. Not Via processors, mind you, but dual core. Not just no-name brands, either, but Acer and Lenovo. And they all ship with some version of Linux or other. I've seen units preloaded with Ubuntu, and the horribly named Linpus is very popular with Acer notebooks.

However, it's likely that once the buyers bring the unit home, a bootleg version of Windows gets loaded on it. Linux is preloaded just to show that the unit is working.

On the other hand, netbooks aren't really living up to the name. They're coming in with more memory and more disk space -- case in point is the Deep Blue H1 [blogspot.com] (not sure what the designation is in other countries): 1GB memory and 40GB hard disk, and all of $300.

Re:

[miscz (888242)]

Linux is preloaded on such machines mostly because Microsoft "convinced" the governments of many countries that no computer should be sold without OS to reduce piracy. Manufacturers get around those laws by preloading Linux and even sometimes FreeDOS - seems that they have a good sense of humour :)

Microsoft not interested

[juventasone (517959)]

I imagine Microsoft is being short-sighted and deciding they don't want to promote another platform like Windows Mobile that will never sell a $300 Office or any of their bread and butter.

anyone paying attention in Redmond you ask?

[way2trivial (601132)]

Yeah-- These guys
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=office+chairs+in+redmond,+wa&ie=UTF8&z=12 [google.com]