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Comparing 3G Networks

Posted by kdawson on Tue May 13, 2008 07:59 PM
from the and-the-winner-is dept.
Wireless Networking Hardware
bsk_cw writes "Brian Nadel got hold of cellular network cards from AT&T, Sprint, and Verizon, and tried them out with a Lenovo ThinkPad X300 notebook. He watched videos on commuter trains, worked with e-mail at cafes, listened to Internet radio at the airport, and downloaded large files while in a moving car. AT&T came out on top in his tests in the New York area (summary here). Some of the reader comments report different conclusions, so a YMMV is in order."
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Submission: Which 3G network is the best? by bsk_cw (1202181)
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  • and that cost a lot less.

  • What's the lag? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by MBCook (132727) <foobarsoft@foobarsoft.com> on Tuesday May 13 2008, @08:12PM (#23398162) Homepage

    My big question would be: what's the lag?

    The last time I tried to use a cell network for internet access, the lag was horrid (300+ms) compared to real broadband. How is the lag on these systems? I'd rather have the responsive 450kbps connection than the unresponsive 1.5mbps connection.

    • I SSH into a machine on the other coast over my Sprint wifi sometimes, and connect to an irssi session running in 'screen'. It's pretty usable.

    • Re:What's the lag? (Score:5, Informative)

      by MyDixieWrecked (548719) on Tuesday May 13 2008, @09:15PM (#23398506) Homepage Journal
      I've got an AT&T Tilt (HTC Tytan II) with HSDPA/3G/EDGE/GSM/etc and depending on where I am and what network, I get wildly different results. These is by using the bluetooth internet sharing with my MacbookPro in OSX or using USB internet sharing with my Ubuntu Linux Vaio:

      Location / ping to google.com / max download speed
      At my dad's house in NJ / ~400-800ms / ~65K/sec
      NJTransit Train in NJ / ~80-90ms / ~110/sec
      NJX Airport / ~40-50ms / ~120K/sec
      In Brooklyn / ~70-80ms / ~120K/sec
      In Manhattan / ~40-50ms / ~120K/sec
    • Using my Samsung SGH-T509 cell phone as a dial-up modem (over a USB cable), I typically experience latency of 700-1200ms. My cellular provider is T-Mobile, and I'm in Richardson, Texas. The speed is about 25 KB/s at best, though T-Mobile allows this luxury only for HTTP connections; the rest are throttled to about 4-6 KB/s.

  • Does anyone see the connection here? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by postbigbang (761081) on Tuesday May 13 2008, @08:19PM (#23398198)
    Philadelphia's muniWiFi network goes dead next month when Earthlink pulls the plug.

    Oddly, the telcos start allowing metered access of their 3G networks; no all-you-can-eat plans anymore. In megabyte increments in one case.....

    • Hey, it works with text messaging. Why wouldn't they charge large amounts for something that costs them a lot less?

      On a side note, Verizon has been doing that for a while with their "data plans". Last I checked they were limiting my phone to 100 MB per month. Good thing I don't use it for internet.

      • Although I wonder how you get email it it's not 'internet', my old plan didn't seem to have any boundaries, just crappy and mercurial service. I had to mod various ugly plist files on my Mac to make it work, and Linux was plainly not going to see it as a modem without a lot of work. This guy used Windows; the low-hanging-fruit test.

        The reality is that wireless broadband as expoused by the carriers in the US is on the meter now; it's not really broadband just bits-per-buck.
      • I gave up my Verizon plan; $60/mo was ridiculous. Convenient, yes. Frustrating, yes. Mercurial on a good day, impossible on a bad one.

        Yeah, the meter is on. Let's hope this form of 'broadband' changes, and soon. I was hoping that WiMAX would be real, but even with the recent divorce and remarriage of Clearwire and Sprint and Intel, I don't give it much of a chance. I like Craig McGaw's LEO access balloons.....
          • It might be quixotic, but you're a nice person. Your carrier might have some problem it... and it might be illegal to use your AP depending on the locale.

            It reminds me of the old biker saying, ass grass or gas, nobody rides for free.....
  • Where I live in North Texas, I lose calls on my AT&T 3G phone all the time, as it drops down to a different service level. I've even gotten the dreaded "Emergency service only" a few times on various days. Considering the town/city I live in has over 100K people and 2 pretty large universities, it has been surprising how poorly their 3G coverage is.

    Considering my cell phone is my work phone (I work from home), this is not a good thing. The only reason I use AT&T is because at the time, there was

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Blahbooboo3 (874492)
      Why not get a VOIP phone?
    • I found Verizon's EVDO to be the best performer here in the D/FW metroplex. Smokes AT&T's 3G aircard service for breakfast. We've used Sprint before too, and they're pretty good at least in most of the high-techy areas of the metroplex too, plus also around the D/FW airport where all four major carriers VZW, ATT, T-Mobile and Sprint all have strong coverage.

      Considering the town/city I live in has over 100K people and 2 pretty large universities, it has been surprising how poorly their 3G coverage is.

      Hmm

  • Crowdsourcing the Data (Score:5, Interesting)

    by DavidD_CA (750156) on Tuesday May 13 2008, @09:54PM (#23398738) Homepage
    Maybe something already exists, but wouldn't it be cool if there was some kind of app that people could install on their laptops that would upload metrics to a central server and make it available to review?

    The app could tie into the 3G card and pull your approximate location, your carrier, and your average speed and upload it all to a server. As long as it doesn't also upload personal data, or your IP, etc, I can't foresee privacy issues (and it would be opt-in anyway).

    With enough people running an app like this, the data could come together quite nicely and allow people to view a map overlayed with the different networks and average performance.

    And I bet such a site could be supported by ad revenue. (3: Profit)
    • You mean like dslreports [dslreports.com] has been doing forever and a day?

      It's too bad they don't have the results broken down in a more useful manner, and don't ask where you are when you do the speed test.

  • What about roaming in other countries? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by loshwomp (468955) on Tuesday May 13 2008, @11:08PM (#23399088)
    I want to know if there are carriers that will provide data service and not completely rape me when I travel overseas. Usually when I ask a US carrier about international anything (rates, service, whatever) they have nothing but blank stares to offer.

    How do you get data service overseas?

    • How do you get data service overseas?

      Wireless hotspots or I rent another 3G card. It would seem that Telcos the world over are set on using any kind or roaming and data especially to fund a larger private jet for their execs. Calls I can kind of get, but the cost of providing data access abroad must oly be a fraction more than in the home country of the user it should just be ensuring that the billing and access authoriation infra is in place.

      Wireless can work pretty well, I used to use iPass which worked in every country I went to, no ide

    • How often and for how long do you travel abroad?
      It might be best to get a local subscription if you mostly go to one country and do this a lot.

      If you go to Europe and travel between countries, you must check to see that you get one that let you use the free data-rate while roaming though...
      Most don't and you still get the rape when roaming.

      Examples of 7.2Mbit/s services from www.tele2.se in sweden:
      $16.24/month with a 1GB/month cap, then the service gets throttled to 30kbit/s
      $26.08/month with a 5GB/month cap

  • ATT 3G...how much did they pay for that article? (Score:5, Informative)

    by knutsdood (866904) on Wednesday May 14 2008, @12:14AM (#23399370)
    As an IT manager for a consulting business, 80% of my workforce is on the road 80% of the year. Broadband cards are absolutely critical to our success. We field test all over the nation and offer all three options. Our people have decided on 2 Verizon cards, 6 dozen Sprint cards and nobody has opted for the ATT card.

    Our consultants are regularly in NYC, Philly, Houston, Chicago, LA, San Francisco, Seattle, Vancouver and Dallas.

    If it helps anybody, Sprint is weak in New Jersey and parts of the Dallas area. Verizon picks up New Jersey nicely and this is where both of our Verizon cards are primarily deployed. Verizon and ATT are both not superior in Dallas so perhaps something else makes them all less than perfect.

    One last thing...as soon as iPhone 2.0 comes out, and sells like hotcakes, the ATT network is going to be overburdened...you watch.
  • Is there an easy-to-use hardware device which will accept one of these 3G cards and act like a WiFi accesspoint, for a mobile WiFi solution?

    I've been looking for one, but with mixed results.

    • Is there an easy-to-use hardware device which will accept one of these 3G cards and act like a WiFi accesspoint, for a mobile WiFi solution?

      I've been looking for one, but with mixed results.

      These do exist, but I can't remember who makes them. I spent a while in Switzerland with me from the UK, a guy from Germany and a Swiss guy all working at a client, we used the Swiss 3G card and a device which does exactly as you describe and it worked really well. I'll come back if it occurs to me later today

  • Anyone thinking of trying out AT&T, Sprint, or Verizon should check their coverage maps carefully. I have great difficultly in getting a reliable connection here in Australia.

    • What about costs, caps?

      The article didn't say if he was wearing a cap - you don't it would effect reception do you?

    • 5GiB, $60 (Score:5, Informative)

      by corsec67 (627446) on Tuesday May 13 2008, @08:07PM (#23398120) Homepage Journal
      It seems like the high end is $60-$80 with a 5GiB cap. ATT and Sprint have lower end plans with a insane limit of 4-5MiB, Verizon 50MiB.

      The lower end plans seem so limited as to be useless. How much Google maps usage can you fit into 4MiB before it is $1-8 per extra MiB?

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by mrbluze (1034940)
        Is there much prospect of the price of wireless broadband becoming affordable? It's very irritating to have ubuquitous technology that practically nobody can afford (or is willing to spend that kind of money) to use.

        • Re:5GiB, $60 (Score:5, Informative)

          by Colonel Korn (1258968) on Tuesday May 13 2008, @08:35PM (#23398286)

          Is there much prospect of the price of wireless broadband becoming affordable? It's very irritating to have ubuquitous technology that practically nobody can afford (or is willing to spend that kind of money) to use.
          You can get unlimited data and text and 500 minutes of voice for $30/month on Sprint if you get the plan that's been floating around a lot of Hot Deals forums across the net for the last year. You can get it, for instance, with the HTC Mogul, which acts as a wireless router (with modding) to allow however many laptops you have nearby to access the net. In my area speeds are around 800 kbps because we don't have great coverage here. The Mogul also has GPS (works great with Google Maps for live satellite views of your location) and gives you your choice of iPhone style 2 finger zooming in Opera (with modding) or (my preference) single tap zooming.

          In summary, there are cheap, good plans out there, but they're quasi-secret.

          • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

            by BBF_BBF (812493)

            You can get unlimited data and text and 500 minutes of voice for $30/month on Sprint if you get the plan that's been floating around a lot of Hot Deals forums across the net for the last year. You can get it, for instance, with the HTC Mogul, which acts as a wireless router (with modding) to allow however many laptops you have nearby to access the net.

            The SERO plan that you're referring to DOES NOT ALLOW TETHERING. You may be happy with your "work around", but any business person foolish enough to do that is just asking for a meaty lawsuit that will cost his/her company lots more money and maybe a misdemeanor for theft. I agree it's not fair that "tethering" costs unreasonably large amounts of money, while "unlimited" on-phone browsing is *much* less. But such is life and it's what the market will bear.

            • I came to post this, but was beaten.

              Except with phone-as-modem plans, you may not use a phone (including a Bluetooth phone) on a plan with unlimited Vision/Power Vision as a modem in connection with a computer, PDA, or similar device. We reserve the right to deny or terminate service without notice for any misuse.
              SERO does have unlimited data plans, but they start at $50.

          • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

            by FooAtWFU (699187)

            You can get unlimited data and text and 500 minutes of voice for $30/month on Sprint if you get the plan that's been floating around a lot of Hot Deals forums across the net for the last year.
            For values of 'unlimited data' less than 5 gigabytes a month, per standard Sprint Terms Of Service, I presume?

            • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

              by Spy Hunter (317220)
              For what it's worth, Sprint does not enforce the 5GB limit. Verizon did for a while but they got fined for false advertising (Unlimited BroadbandAccess(tm) say the ads), so they stopped. It's asinine to have to agree to ridiculous TOS restrictions like that, but that's what you get with oligopolies.

            • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

              by jelle (14827)
              There is a Google maps application that I know will run on SymbianOS that Nokia uses (s60 phones)... And on phones like the N80i, it even locates where you are with about 2 miles accuracy. It's a separate google app, doesn't need a browser.

      • Re:5GiB, $60 (Score:5, Interesting)

        by 0100010001010011 (652467) on Tuesday May 13 2008, @08:22PM (#23398214)
        Now is that 1-8 cents or 1-8 dollars? [verizonmath.com]
      • Er, are those plans really sold in GiB/MiB? Data plans are usually measured in GB/MB; GiB/MiB is supposed to be for RAM, (sometimes) flash storage, and other binary multiples. Data carriage is almost always sold using standard SI prefix meanings.
      • I used Sprint EVDO as my only broadband (with SecondLife), streaming a few gigs each day from mid 2006-2007 on their unlimited plan. Always listened to music, and sometimes watched movies too... Now seeing what other services offer (rather, limit) I love Sprint even more! -Randy

    • Or did you not elaborate on purpose because it is common knowledge what large files get downloaded on fast connections? Hmm?
      Umm like YouTube videos, game demos, or... oh, wait, you're talking stereotypes here.
    • It doesn't matter so much what he downloaded. It would be interesting if the protocol was specified. http? bittorrent?

    • It wasn't a fair comparison (Score:5, Interesting)

      by letsief (1053922) on Tuesday May 13 2008, @08:54PM (#23398392)
      I don't think the reviewer did a very fair comparison. Most significantly, he should have used similar data cards- preferably using cards over USB. The AT&T and Verizon cards were larger, and probably able to pick up weaker signals better. They also included built-in batteries, which greatly impacted the laptop battery life test.

      I'm also a little skeptical of his bandwidth testing method. I've never heard the Alken site, and the tests I did right now on my own system aren't even close to my actual performance (although, maybe they're justing getting slammed with traffic). It would have been interesting to see if signal strength played a factor as well.

      In any case, most people I've heard from have had exactly the opposite results. Usually Sprint is the fastest, with Verizon not far behind and AT&T bringing up the rear. Sprint also has considerably more 3G coverage than the other two carriers. Without saying anything about their customer service, I think Sprint is the clear choice when it comes to data plans.

      • Re:It wasn't a fair comparison (Score:4, Insightful)

        by general_re (8883) on Tuesday May 13 2008, @09:36PM (#23398630) Homepage

        I'm also a little skeptical of his bandwidth testing method. I've never heard the Alken site, and the tests I did right now on my own system aren't even close to my actual performance (although, maybe they're justing getting slammed with traffic).

        Why would you choose a server in Norway to test the speed of a wireless connection in New York anyway? Are we testing the speed of the actual wireless network, or the peering arrangements for each provider across the North Atlantic?

        Seems to me that you'd want to pick something a little closer, so as to test the actual speed of the provider's network, rather than the speed of the connection to Norway or South Africa or Mars or wherever. Alken just benchmarked my home connection at 1.6 Mbit down. Speakeasy's Washington DC [speakeasy.net] speed test server clocked me at 23.7 Mbit down - which one do you think is a better reading of my ISP's actual performance?

        • Re:It wasn't a fair comparison (Score:4, Interesting)

          by kylehase (982334) on Wednesday May 14 2008, @12:11AM (#23399362)
          Absolutely correct. If you wanted to isolate the wireless connection as the variable then each provider should setup their own download server on their network. It would be in their interest to use a beefy server and place it optimally on the network for wireless downloads.

          For an even more controlled test you'd need to use the same server hardware and same application layer protocols on each network.

          Unfortunately, while this would be a great test for wireless transfer speed it's not a good test of actual browsing/downloading.
    • I also use Sprint's service in the S.F. Bay Area and I'm impressed with it. The no-cap policy is what first attracted me but now it's the reliability that has made it worth it. It's a very good service.

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