Eee Is 1st Windows Laptop To Support Multi-Touch

An anonymous reader writes "CNET UK has just put up its review of the Asus Eee PC 900 Win running Windows XP and discovered that it's the first Windows machine to support multi-touch, 'Better still, the mouse trackpad supports multi-touch gesture inputs — even in Windows XP. A pinching motion lets you zoom in on images, stretching lets you zoom out, and a two-finger vertical stroking motion allows you to scroll up and down through documents. MacBook Air and iPod touch users have enjoyed this feature for some time, but it's the first we've ever seen it implemented on a Windows laptop.'"

Where's the patent???

[Raineer (1002750)]

I have to say I'm surprised this wasn't covered by some sort of patent already, or will tomorrow's Slashdot include the accompanying lawsuit?

I type this from a Macbook, but mine is the cheapest one which didn't get multi-touch :(

Re:Where's the patent???

[by Anonymous Coward]

Why do you assume Apple has the patent on multi-touch?...., which it doesn't!

But good luck to them if they tried to patent the gesture.

ps I am patenting my own gesture to apple for being a ripoff company.

Re:

[archkittens (1272770)]

grandparent did not speculate on ownership of patents, instead simply remarking that they are surprised there are no patents on it.

IIRC, apple DOES own patents relating to the technology, but a Chinese company owns the actual multi-touch hardware patents.

kindly patent shutting your mouth

Re:Where's the patent???

[ozmanjusri (601766)]

But good luck to them if they tried to patent the gesture.

Apple HAS tried to patent multitouch gestures [slashdot.org].

We discussed it here a few months ago.

Re:

[@madeus (24818)]

When the iPod came out, hard disk based MP3 players where a new thing. The only other multi gigabyte MP3 player at the time based device was the poorly received Nomad - which was the size of a CD player (not something you could fit in a regular pocket).

Apple have paid for the UNIX OS,they pay licensing fees to the Open Group. They contribute back their changes to software such as GCC, KHTML/WebKit and other pojects - as is well documented.

But I guess the facts just get in the way of a bit of blind hatred.

Re:Where's the patent???

[Kenja (541830)]

The first Multi Touch style demo I ever saw was several years ago from Microsoft.

Re:Where's the patent???

[wvmarle (1070040)]

But, as usual with Microsoft, the really cool functions and innovations continue to be postponed to "the next release".

It is quite sad that a cool and very useful feature demonstrated years ago by the leading software maker (by revenue) in the world, has to be made popular by implementation in a mobile phone by a total newcomer in that market (Apple with the iPhone), followed by implementation by a hardware maker on a low-end, low-cost laptop (the EEE). And it is not that this leading software maker can not get hardware makers to change the hardware standards, thinking of the Windows key that is present on virtually any keyboard now on the market.

Re:

[smallfries (601545)]

It's strange that you say that because the first multi-touch demo that I remember seeing was a table sized input device that they used to control C&C and google earth. It strikes me as strange because it is the exact same technology that Microsoft have cloned and claimed to have invented with the Surface... Small world when you're competing with Microsoft I guess.

Re:Where's the patent???

[kripkenstein (913150)]

You can calm down with all the "?"s. Rest assured, if there is a patent, Asus has licensed it. The world won't end.

Anyhow, the most amusing part of the review was the conclusion,

We can't really recommend the Windows version of the Eee PC 900 over its Linux counterpart, primarily because you get nearly twice as much storage space in the Linux version. [...] If you really can't live without XP, then the best course of action is to buy the superior Linux version and install XP yourself.

Strange times, when the Windows people are those that are going to have installation hassles...

Also, it is me or does it seem like Cnet is advocating piracy here? I mean, where do they expect you to get XP from; if you buy it yourself, it makes the Linux Eee 900 + off-the-shelf XP quite expensive. Presumably they don't mean that, so what's left...?

Re:Where's the patent???

[lixee (863589)]

The 20G Xandros Eee seems like a classic case of bait-and-switch to me. A company that couldn't even deliver the 8G is now supposed to sell us 20Gs? I'm not convinced. I smell a deal with MS whereby there is always a severe shortage of Xandros and everyone walking into the store will be forced to get the XP version. And no, I'm not usually a cynic.

Re:

[by Anonymous Coward]

Also, it is me or does it seem like Cnet is advocating piracy here? I mean, where do they expect you to get XP from...

It only seems like Cnet is advocating piracy when you take the quote out of context, which you have. The full statement in the Cnet review was

Of course if you really are set on Windows XP, the obvious suggestion would be to buy the Linux machine, then just install XP yourself - assuming that you have a spare copy of XP knocking about that is.

Nice try though. Why would you even try to misrepresent that situation, anyway?

Re:

[nametaken (610866)]

OEM license follows the machine. You're not supposed to do that. :)

Re:

[I(rispee_I(reme (310391)]

That's right- look until you can't find 'em.

Re:Where's the patent???

[nguy (1207026)]

I have to say I'm surprised this wasn't covered by some sort of patent already, or will tomorrow's Slashdot include the accompanying lawsuit?

Despite the usual Apple PR distortions, Apple didn't invent multitouch and multitouch is old technology. At best, Apple may have some patents covering specific implementations, and even those may not be valid. Apple's real contribution with multitouch was to use just a little bit of it and integrate it well, but that's not patentable.

ASUS either figured they're in the clear, or they're willing to fight it. Good for them.

Re:Where's the patent???

[grm_wnr (781219)]

This is what Apple does a lot - take something reasonably old and obvious, make it look spiffy and actually usable for someone without a CS degree, then sell (and market) it as the Hot New Thing.


Not that there's anything wrong with that. Especially the "making it actually usable" part. There's lots of k3wl shit out there in the FOSS community, but Apple is one of the few companies that actually manages to sell it to your semi-usual consumers, even if they sometimes scale it down a bit and use marketing that causes geeks to flinch in pain.

Re:Where's the patent???

[TheNetAvenger (624455)]

This is what Apple does a lot - take something reasonably old and obvious, make it look spiffy and actually usable for someone without a CS degree, then sell (and market) it as the Hot New Thing.

This is giving Apple too much credit even.

The Multi-Touch implementation that Apple has used on the iPhone and iPod and Macbook, are EXACT UI multi-touch concepts 're-introduced' at the TED conference a couple of years back. (I think the demonstration may even be online now for people that didn't attend.)

The TED demonstration put together some cool new ways of using multi-touch ideas for working with photos, zooming in/out etc. And in the TED presentation, the presenters gave the presentation as a spark to get people involved in using the technology, but some of the UI gestures they came up with were off the top of their heads as the admitted and needed to be refined or possibly done better.

Sadly, Apple even copied these multi-touch gestures, not even expanding on the ideas presented as was expected by the presenters at the TED conference. (So not only did Apple copy the ideas, they copied them exactly, not even expanding the features that were made up for the conference to try to inspire better gestures and usage.)

Microsoft also had a few multi-touch demonstrations several years back, along 2002/2003 timeframe when the TabletPC was the new cool thing.

The TED conference presentation was a blend of new ideas, old ideas, and a few MS ideas, etc.

Microsoft's surface also borrows from the TED presentation, although MS has polished some of the gestures and UI concepts, building on their work from earlier and adding in some TED concepts, and actually refining some of the rough ideas that Apple copied from TED. The surface computer is more than multi-touch though, as it can 'see' through the display, and is not limited to tactical input, so it can recognize objects, barcodes, even paintbrushes, etc.

So, ya, you are being way to generous with Apple, the only thing they have done that is new or cool is the marketing that gets people like the parent poster to think Apple created this stuff and gets their loyal fans to look down on other people implementing 'Apple's Technologies'. Geesh...

Re:Where's the patent???

[jimicus (737525)]

I think Apple's track record is decidedly mixed; they have committed awful usability blunders in the past. I think on balance, they are no better than FOSS.

I would have to disagree with that one.

Usability is something MacOS hammers Linux into the ground for right now. Hardware add-ons just fscking work, which is far more than can be said for Linux.

Granted, a lot of that is to do with hardware manufacturers refusing to release specs. But I've got a whole pile of examples here where specs are available, drivers have been written and yet still the resulting UI is so clunky compared to Windows or Mac equivalents that it is almost painful to use.

Re:

[markdavis (642305)]

>Usability is something MacOS hammers Linux into the ground for right now.

Usibility in Linux is just fine. I have seen lots of people use it with no problems.

>Hardware add-ons just fscking work, which is far more than can be said for Linux.

Um, I can walk out RIGHT NOW and lay my hands on hardware designed for MS-Windows and watch it fail miserably under Mac-OS. That doesn't prove much. If your point is that Mac-OS supports more hardware than Linux, I would agree. If your point is that Linux has li

Re:Where's the patent???

[grm_wnr (781219)]

Well...

>two keyboards, wireless mice, an ipod
Standard equipment that would cause a riot if it wasn't supported. Yes, even the iPod.

>an external DVD drive, a pocket USB hard drive, an SD card, a USB memory stick, and my camera
All the same class of equipment, USB mass storage devices. They likely even use the same driver. Well, maybe not the DVD if it's burner.

But still, try something more challenging, like a sound card or an unusual video card.

Re:

[RiotingPacifist (1228016)]

Um, I can walk out RIGHT NOW and lay my hands on hardware designed for MS-Windows and watch it fail miserably under Mac-OS. That doesn't prove much. If your point is that Mac-OS supports more hardware than Linux, I would agree.

I dont understand what your saying, there's a lot more MS windows type hardware than Mac. Also theres alot of hardware that windows/macos wont run on but linux will. Or are we only talking peripherals here, in which case there are weak spots on the linux front, e.g webcams, external sound cards, etc. (also a couple of places where it beats both mac & windows)

Standard equipment that would cause a riot if it wasn't supported. Yes, even the iPod.

Even though Apple deliberately try to break support with every version they release?

Fanbois never see the flaws

[yelvington (8169)]

These discussions are chronically unproductive because they attract postings from True Believers who aren't capable of seeing the flaws in their Chosen Products and have no significant, current real-world experience with the alternatives.

The Macintosh UI is a rat's nest of bad design decisions and inconsistencies.

So is the Windows UI, and so are the several Linux desktops.

They all suck. Get used to it.

I use a high-end Powerbook as my primary work tool every single day. I have a couple of XP machines sitting around the house (old desktop, wife's Vaio laptop), have run Linux since kernel 0.96 or so, have a Linux-powered Nokia 800 in my pocket, and have installed Ubuntu on the computers of my kids and their grandmothers. (Vista has been banned from my presence.)

All of them, including the Macintosh, fall apart under scrutiny when it comes to UI. (Why is the menu bar on a DIFFERENT MONITOR THAN THE ONE I AM USING? This is not single-tasking 1984! Why do I drag something to the trash can when I don't want to delete it? And what idiot actually thinks Finder is a decent way to launch applications? And why is it so slow? And, and, and....)

And when it comes to hardware, the general rule on the Mac is that it Just Works only if you buy pricey Apple-branded add-ons.

Anything else is a complete crap shoot. Odds of getting my USB hard drive to work on a Mac are slim and none, yet it Just Works with every Linux system I've tried. Without touching configuration files (I don't even know where they are any more).

On balance I like my Powerbook a lot more than the dead Windows Compaq it replaced, and it's infinitely more secure. But there are all sorts of Linux features it doesn't have, such as the very slick virtual filesystem that lets me mount my webserver folders via ssh/sftp, and I miss the vast quantities of software for Linux. And, because I have to work with Exchange, I'm really frustrated with the Mac's calendaring. So it's entirely possible that when my Mac dies, the replacement will be a Linux laptop, especially now that the Eee has the multitouch pad.

Re:

[yelvington (8169)]

Manually relocating the menu bar from one monitor to another does not fix the problem. I don't WANT a "main screen." On a multiscreen, multitasking system where I might very well have 18 apps running at the same time, the damned menu bar should be with the application I'm using at the moment, and the only reason it's not part of the application on the Mac is a poor 1980s design decision made permanent by arrogance. And that's the problem: The Mac UI engineers are fanbois of their own work, incapable of seei

Re:Where's the patent???

[grm_wnr (781219)]

It's all a matter of expectations.

Hardcore Mac users will expect to buy hardware that is certified to work and pay a premium for it. And they say "everything just works on a Mac".

Hardcore Linux users will expect to buy Hardware they heard good things about on the internet, tweak the configurations a bit, download a few packages and patches, maybe compile a kernel or two, and fiddle about until they're satisfied. And they say "everything just works on Linux".

Hardcore Windows users will expect to buy just about anything, maybe install a driver, and then have it more or less working. And they say "everything just works on Windows".

The bottom line is: Never ask "hardcore" people about usability. And this being /., everyone is hardcore.

Re:Where's the patent???

[dfghjk (711126)]

"Apple's real contribution with multitouch was to use just a little bit of it and integrate it well, but that's not patentable."

What is patentable will surprise you.

Re:Where's the patent???

[Solra Bizna (716281)]

maybe if you're lucky, the author of http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=527884&cid=23125954 [slashdot.org] will license their newly acquired patent on shutting up to you!

Why don't you establish prior art and shut up yourself?

Because that would invalidate the patent, silly.

-:sigma.SB

SDHC and BIOS fan control fixed?

[by Anonymous Coward]

Does the 900 fix the problems experienced in the 700 series like the built-in flakey SDHC controller (which is only spec'd for SD cards, but sometimes works for SDHCs) or the loud fan problems of the 702s?

keyboard is king

[timmarhy (659436)]

nothing defeats the keyboard for easy and speed of input.

Re:

[Facegarden (967477)]

nothing defeats the keyboard for easy and speed of input.

Unless you're not typing... There are lots of ways to define the word "input". You're using a mouse aren't you? Clearly it beats the keyboard some of the time... Similarly, track pads are better than keyboards for mousing around, and multitouch track pads are better still, i can imagine. Remember, this is Slashdot, you have to be painfully specific and accurate or someone will call you out. -Taylor

Re:keyboard is king

[Raineer (1002750)]

I've really gotten away from using a mouse for anything, if I can help it. I have gotten too used to using a laptop and just being too lazy to drag out the bluetooth mouse. It's really difficult to claim anything can be faster than keyboard, as by the time most people finish wiggling their mouse to the target the keystrokes are overwith.

Re:

[Facegarden (967477)]

Ehh, unless you're doing lots of web browsing, which is mostly scrolling and clicking. I know you can use the arrow keys and such, but really, that just sucks. I use keyboard shortcuts left and right, and i use the keyboard more than most (us nerds not included) but some things are better left to other input devices. -Taylor

Re:

[Solra Bizna (716281)]

Konqueror lets you scroll up and down with the cursor keys (shift+cursor key has some neat effects, too) and make all links on-screen keyboard-accessible by tapping "control."

-:sigma.SB

Re:

[Phil Urich (841393)]

Yeah umm as another poster has already commented, Konqueror does that naturally, just tap ctrl and every link gets a letter. And the eeePC already HAS Konqueror on it, even though it isn't listed anywhere; if you're in Basic mode, just hit ctrl-alt-t and type in "konqueror" in the terminal window that pops up; F11 to full-screen and browse away with your keyboard.

Re:

[bazonic (463550)]

>> It's really difficult to claim anything can be faster than keyboard

I take it you are not a user of Photoshop (insert favorite image/video editing software here).

Umm...

[Facegarden (967477)]

Damn, 3 comments and no one mentioned anything about the phrase "vertical stroking motion". I'm impressed. I kinda wanted to wait and see how long it would be before someone else mentioned it, but it've screwed that up now... -Taylor

Was it the first?

[madsenj37 (612413)]

Was it the first or the first non-apple branded laptop, since apples now run windows? I have not tried multitouch on a macbook air, so I am curious.

Re:

[Facegarden (967477)]

I think they mean first commercial laptop SOLD with XP installed... and even then, i don't think generic drivers exist, so i would bet the macbook air with XP installed wouldn't actually take advantage of the multitouch. -Taylor

vertical stroking motion?

[julesh (229690)]

a two-finger vertical stroking motion allows you to scroll up and down through documents

I had an acer laptop about 4 or 5 years ago that supported a similar gesture for scrolling. This is nothing new. The rest of it, perhaps, but scrolling gestures have been around a while...

Re:

[yomegaman (516565)]

Nope, mine does two-finger scroll anywhere on the pad also, and it's old. That's not new at all.

Terminology

[PingPongBoy (303994)]

Multi-Touch is kind of unimaginative, when you consider the alternative: Fondle.

Now consider a computer that responds to touch all over. The intent of the user tends to be a bit vague however.

biased bullshit

[nguy (1207026)]

By using Windows XP, users can sidestep many of the software and hardware compatibility issues that plague the Linux version. We've encountered numerous devices that don't work with a Linux Eee because of driver issues, including some USB disc drives, printers and TV tuners. You simply don't get these problems with a Windows-equipped Eee PC 900.

That's biased bullshit. There are plenty of problems trying to get hardware to work on a regular Windows XP machine, and it only gets worse on an Eee PC. Imagine first time it asks you to insert the driver CD, displays its 800x800 configuration dialog, or requires "Windows Vista or better".

SSD ought to be detachable / pluggable

[1 a bee (817783)]

Rather than this windows XP gimmick (which according to the article, they had to sacrifice hardware to keep price parity with the Linux version), I would have liked to have seen the Eee series' SSDs be easy to attach and detach. Then you could conceivably run a given operating environment on multiple Eee platforms. I use a portable OS on a USB called FaunOS [faunos.com]. The logic of centralizing my operating environment on a single detachable device has sunk in for me. Now with the Eee PCs, I think it would be cool if Asus packaged a detachable SSD so that you could unplug it from the Eee in the kitchen, and plug it back in to the Eee in the bedroom. Best of all, each of my kids could have their own SSD, so that we wouldn't muck around with each other's OS's. I could probably pull this off with FaunOS [Google search] [google.com], but I think it would have been much cooler if I could use the Eee's SSD like I'm using the USB.

--
the glass is half broken

Re:SSD ought to be detachable / pluggable

[am 2k (217885)]

I think it would be cool if Asus packaged a detachable SSD so that you could unplug it from the Eee in the kitchen, and plug it back in to the Eee in the bedroom.

I think you're missing the point of an ultra-portable subnotebook.

Re:

[Facegarden (967477)]

I thought the Dell Latitude XT supported multi-touch?

It does, but last i heard the actual drivers that did anything interesting weren't ready yet, so it's possible that the Eee PC is just the first multitouch XP laptop that actually does something useful with multitouch. And this is all ignoring the fact that XP can be installed on a macbook air, because really, since it doesn't come with it, it kinda doesn't count in this sense. And again, the drivers probably aren't there. -Taylor

Re:

[AuMatar (183847)]

Really? Makes sense to me- you're reducing the field of view, so you move your fingers inwards (your fingers representing the field of view). The opposite sounds awkward to me.

Then again, I think the entire deal is a little silly- just add a scroll wheel.

Re:Pinching zooms in?

[Jeff DeMaagd (2015)]

Really? Makes sense to me- you're reducing the field of view, so you move your fingers inwards (your fingers representing the field of view). The opposite sounds awkward to me.

I suppose, if you have the photographic mindset. I think most people can deal better with the idea of resizing the image, not a more abstract concept of FOV, especially when it's actually resizing an image on a display.

Then again, I think the entire deal is a little silly- just add a scroll wheel.

The two finger scrolling is pretty nice though. I really don't see the point in adding a scroll wheel. It's an unnecessary addition of a mechanical component when existing electronic components should do the job for most people. And it's easier to deal with as a scroll wheel would need to be accompanied with another keystroke to tell the computer that it's a resize and not a scrolling action.

Re:Pinching zooms in?

[cheater512 (783349)]

Put two fingers on a normal track pad and it cannot tell where your fingers actually are.
It can see a press in four places instead of two.

You could write some tricky software to emulate it but it wouldnt be as good.
E.g. Pinpoint the location of the first finger that touched and then use that information to work out where the second is.

Re:

[amRadioHed (463061)]

I wonder how hard it would be to actually write software that would allow multi-touch on any trackpad? On my trackpad tapping with three fingers works as middle-button would on a "proper" mouse, and tapping with two works like right-click, altough I prefer to use one of the corners.

It would be pretty hard since the typical trackpad hardware doesn't support multitouch. If the hardware only reports one point of contact to the OS then no amount of coding can work around that.

Re:

[grm_wnr (781219)]

If someone implements "pinching" on a trackpoint, that will add a completely new layer to the ubiquitous nipple jokes.

Re:

[TheRaven64 (641858)]

I've not looked at MPX, but the correct way of implementing multitouch gesture support in X would be to add it as another (virtual) axis on the input device, just as is done with scroll wheels. Your apps would see two axes for moving, two for scrolling, one for zooming and one for rotating, giving 6 axes in total. X already supports six axis input devices and it's much easier to add virtual ones with the new input code (in 7.4, I think, not sure if it made it into 7.3). Then the support your toolkit need

Re:Maybe I'm Getting Old?

[TheRaven64 (641858)]

Please try using a laptop with a multitouch scroll pad for a bit. After you get used to being able to scroll in two dimensions by just rotating your wrist (to move to your hand to the trackpad) put down two fingers, and slide them over the pad in the direction you want to move, everything else just seems clunky. The best UI features are the ones that you only notice when they aren't there, and this is definitely in this category.