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iPhone Forcing Open Wireless Networks?
Posted by
samzenpus
on Thu Jan 10, 2008 07:14 AM
from the open-up dept.
from the open-up dept.
fermion writes "Wired asserts that the iPhone blew up the wireless industry. This article argues that because Apple demanded the opportunity to control their own phone, and ATT née Cingular agreed, other companies are opening up the networks, and Google now has the opportunity to make Android a reality. There are other tidbits. Allegedly Verizon turned Jobs down without even listening to his pitch, a decision they may well regret now that they are hemorrhaging customers. Also, that Motorola and the networks were responsible for the fiasco dubbed the ROKR, something which I believe given how damaged the American version of the RAZR was compared to international version. It also estimates that the iPhone cost upward of $150 million to design, and earns Apple about $200 profit per phone."
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US, welcome to the world (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:US, welcome to the world (Score:4, Informative)
You can take a SIM card from any carrier and put it in any phone.
Provided that your phone is un-simlocked, yes. Besides when you say "GSM alone" does it exclude GRPS and UMTS? Cause we have that too. Not sure if we have EDGE tho.
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Re:US, welcome to the world (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:US, welcome to the world (Score:5, Informative)
I can take my Aussie (where I live) phone and bring it to Turkey (where I am atm) and it will work fine.
I also have the option of swapping SIM cards to a turkish one to save money.
I actually didnt know that the US wasnt like this.
Seems kinda (well *really*) stupid to me.
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Re:US, welcome to the world (Score:4, Informative)
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Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
A decent solution for Americans who occasionally travel to Europe is the Mobal $50 phone [mobalrental.com] (the buy option, not the rent). I use it for short calls home and use Skype for longer calls. If I'm in my hotel room, where work picks up the tab for the internet, I spend the first $1.50 to call my kids and husband, then tell them to get to the computer where Skype is free for the rest of the call.
If nothing else, it's a good emergency phone for traveling abroad and there's no monthly charge if I don't use it.
Re:US, welcome to the world (Score:4, Interesting)
It sounds suspiciously like the folks who thought they didn't need a cellphone because they never had one before
I too didn't knew how nice is to have web browsing, high speed data connections or e-mail in my pocket until I had a phone with a full keyboard and a decent screen.
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Re:US, welcome to the world (Score:4, Informative)
- Europe: 10,180,000 km^2 (3,930,000 sq mi)
- European Union: 4,324,782 km^2 (1,669,807 sq mi)
- Texas: 678,051 km^2 (261,797 sq mi)
- USofA: 9,826,630 km^2 (3,794,066 sq mi)
All data after Wikipedia. Densities differ - true, but still, don't use such exaggerations to support your argument (which is not bad in itself).Parent
Re:US, welcome to the world (Score:5, Funny)
Europe's like what...the size of Texas? [...] Your comment displays your ignorance of America (much like most American's ignorance of Europe is so frequently pointed out.) The country is freaking HUGE.
Yes, that's right, we ignore a lot about America, mostly the fact that it's huge, that and the fact that you guys are "number 1". You should repeat it more often, we're still not hearing it. Oh and I'm pretty sure Europe is only a third the size of Texas ;-).
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Re:US, welcome to the world (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:US, welcome to the world (Score:4, Informative)
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Re:US, welcome to the world (Score:5, Interesting)
Additionally, the EU has a population of just under 500M people - around 200M more than live in the United States. The EU is a much larger market than all of North America.
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Nope (Score:3, Interesting)
Most Americans (this is anecdotal) seem to live in a 50's world where "Europe" means the western portion of Europe that was never part of the communist block. Basically, England, France, Germany, the Iberian Peninsula, Italy, and Scandinavia. We generally don't consider Poland, Ukraine, or other Slavic/Eastern Block countries part
Re:US, welcome to the world (Score:5, Insightful)
Spain is about the size of Texas. Europe is a bit bigger than US...4 million square miles versus 3.5-3.7 million.
Your point that the large rural areas in the US affect telcommunications there is valid, but your first comment was nuts.
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Re:US, welcome to the world (Score:5, Funny)
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Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I've been inside both type cellsites.
CDMA is an antiquated technology. There is a huge concrete building to house the equipment. 2 rows of 6' high racks lining the building, maybe 15 or more racks of junk! Hundreds of batteries for the UPS. A big AC unit. All requiring constant maintenance. They have
SIM, Europe and the world (Score:4, Informative)
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Re:US, welcome to the world (Score:4, Informative)
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Re:US, welcome to the world (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re: (Score:3, Informative)
SIM-Lock locks the phone to a certain SIM. It does not work the other way around. So you can put your SIM in any GSM phone and use it. The SIM carries your number and your PIN. It doesn't matter which phone you use. The reason behind this is that the carriers subsidize the phones. With a "normal" contract you mainly pay off the phone with the monthly base charge. That base charge w
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Mobiles are all but commoditised now. Face it, all phones are pretty much identical. If this were not the case, then why are the major selling points not phone features at all? Cameras m
Roaming charges are a pointless rip-off (Score:3, Insightful)
If that is the case then good. They will be replaced by better ones.
I think it is ridiculous that if you go between two EU countries, you either have to swap out the SIM cards every time you cross a border (meaning different phone number) or pay to receive a call. Paying to receive calls is stupid.
However, I think if roaming charges where abolished completely then overall they would make more money, as people would make
Very american-centric article (Score:4, Insightful)
Carriers are learning that the right phone even a pricey one can win customers and bring in revenue - they have known it for a long time. What they have been missing that a POS designed and built by HTC which crashes every time you change a cell is not the right phone despite all the marketing push behind it. Marketing reality distortion cannot compensate for product being crap (which is what the ROKR fiasco proves nicely as well).
Similarly, Nokia has been playing this game all along on this side of the pond though I have to admit - it has never ever been so sadistic in its relationship with the carriers. As far as commercials - jobs is jobs nothing more to be said to this regard. So any changes to this regard in the market are American specific.
Europe has been there, seen it. This also probably explains its lukewarm reception over here. There are plenty of competing devices. They are not as good, but they do the job nicely and most of them are not totally operator bastardized (unless you go for Voda UK or Orange). For example I recently got a new Nokia E65 on O2. It took 3-4 presses of a button to tell the O2 customisation to go fish. 10 minutes later it was running VOIP calls on my home wireless networks, browsing the web and reading emails off my imap server. It may not be as shiny as an iphone, but it does all the jobs it does as well as VOIP and does it well.
Re:Very american-centric article (Score:5, Insightful)
In the end, every article and every discussion here and on every other discussion-centric site has different demographics.
I use Ubuntu and I don't think of it as American, European or African.
For the rest of the world, it's interesting to note how the stranglehold of the telcos (due to probably insuficient consumer-protection laws) has held the US back in respect to mobile telephony.
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AT&T, Cingular, T-Mobile (Score:5, Informative)
If you want a nice phone, get an unlocked Nokia N95-3; you get 3G speeds, a 5Mpixel camera, stereo speakers, GPS (works with Google maps), a Safari web browser, and lots more. You aren't locked into a contract or carrier, and you can put in a different SIM card when you travel.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Just last week, I had to fight to get my boss's Motorola W400 phone unlocked. He had it subscribed with T-Mobile originally, but after his contract ran out, he got a new (cheap) phone with an AT&T contract. He didn't like the free phone they included, so he wanted to swap SIM cards and use the W400 on his new AT&T contract.
Immediately, the phone balked, complaining it was subsidy locked and prompted for a PIN code to unlock it.
T-M
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Then I could call, pretending I was him (because otherwise, they wouldn't even talk to me at cust. service)
The nerve of those bastard CSRs at T-Mobile, not being willing to perform actions on your bosses account when you called. I mean it's almost as if they want to talk to the account holder or something.....
I was informed I'd have to wait 24 hours for the code to be emailed to me
I had to wait 48 hours for mine. What of it? The CSRs don't have access to them. In many cases I'm told that T-Mobile itself doesn't even have access to them and they have to request it from Motorola or Nokia and wait for them to respond.
On top of all that, I was informed that they'd only provide these unlock codes to people who called within the first 90 days of cancellation
Just how long after you leave SHOULD they invest resour
is it just me? (Score:5, Funny)
"the iphone is so cool, the ISO is creating a new temperature scale based around it."
"the iphone is so powerful, it can cure cancer...once unlocked."
"the iphone is so versatile, it can not just play music, be a phone and browse the web, but imagine a beowulf cluster of them!"
is it just me? i mean, i think the iphone is pretty darned cool, myself, and i don't even own one. but there's been a great deal of fawning over it. not that apple doesn't deserve accolades for it, but jeez guys...haven't we collectively crossed the threshold of justifiable praise into fanboyism?
ed
Re:is it just me? (Score:5, Insightful)
The most important thing is that the iPhone isn't primarily a phone. It's a Newton that happens to have phone capabilities, and solves a lot of the problems with the original Newton devices (like input).
Unless you've seen a jailbroken iPhone/iPod, it's hard to appreciate how much potential it has as a portable computer and gaming device. Some of the jailbroken stuff is cool (like the etch a sketch simulator). The SDK is the equivalent of releasing iTunes for Windows. It's the thing that will put the iPhone over the top. For example, the touch screen and accelerometer will make for some awesome games. Apple should really hire Nintendo to write some, owing to their success with the DS and their ability to make cool games for it.
Jobs made the right bet on the interface. The versatility of a portable device is proportional to the flexibility of its interface. While people are correct that it is slightly easier to type on a proper keyboard, the versatility more than makes up for that. My PSP is a great device, but it is never going to be as versatile as my iPod Touch. I can't wait to see what 3rd party developers will do with it.
Of course, the iPhone won't suit everyone, and there are plenty of legitimate reasons for not using one, or for waiting for the 3G version/software updates, or waiting for a rival product, but that doesn't stop it from being a game changing device. I seriously doubt that in 5 years it will be easy to find a portable smart device that doesn't have a multitouch interface.
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Android FTW! (Score:5, Interesting)
2. iPhone won't open the market. Android will. Reason: Android is fully customizable. Soon or later Skype[1] or any other VOIP/instant messenging app will be available. Data traffic will become more important than regular POTS calls. Eventually one carrier might step out of line and get out of the entrenchment by offering reasonable data traffic packages. The game theory for this is a prisoners dilema, and we know that all participating players will lose at end. But that's just good for the customers. Technology will dictate it at the end, and it's Google Android that will take the lead here; not iPhone that is tied to carries by contracts.
[1]Skype itself is a total horrible vendor lockin, but hopefully the protocol gets reverse engineered one day and we will all enjoy open clients. Everyone that uses a multi-protocol client with MSN/ICQ/AIM/JABBER knows that suddenly a single protocol becomes quite easy to replace and hence its power to dictate the rules (as it so for skype at the moment) vanishes.
OpenMoko FTW! (Score:3, Interesting)
Are you sure about that? The OpenMoko is fully customisable because it is a fairly standard embedded version of Linux and you are the root user. I'm not sure Android is like that. As far as I know (which is not far), you can customise one layer i.e. what runs inside the Java sandbox but that's it. For me that is no more interesting than Symbian (i.e. not interesting at all really).
I'm waiting for the OpenMoko
OpenMoko is flawed ... (Score:3, Insightful)
"you are the root user"
This makes it a great "GEEK" thing, but normal users (bless their hearts) will screw it up.
What most geeks forget is that they are geeks, not normal people (bless their hearts). Being a geek is seriously not "normal". Being a geek, there are things I like to do that my wife would never do. She is not a geek. She doesn't even know what root is, or what that really means. I can as
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Re:Android FTW! (Score:4, Informative)
As you point out, it's a horrible lock-in protocol, and is tied to a single service for relaying calls to regular phones, a service which isn't very competitively priced.
Personally i use SIP, i have accounts with several providers for outbound calls and i switch whenever a better deal comes along, the reason i have multiple accounts is both for redundancy and because different suppliers offer different rates to different places. I also run my own asterisk pbx, and connect to it using multiple hardware voip phones (cisco 7960s, nokia n95, and a few cheap brandless ones) and have it connected to a physical elephone line.
I wouldn't have any of this flexibility if i was locked in to the skype protocol.
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iPhone Owner here. (Score:5, Interesting)
The setup is a very nice experience. No need to go to some at&t store for anything. If you dont have an apple store, you can order from apple online, have it shipped to your house and you can turn on the at&t service yourself through itunes. Its just a nice way to do things.
The iphone is awesome, but its not everything it could or should be. Apple has created a great platform but they have fallen short in features. It looks as if Apple is going to continue to support the iPhone by adding more applications thanks to the upcoming SDK, and they will be adding new features to existing phones as well as future versions. The iPhone looks like a platform, rather than a phone.
Right now, the iphone is lacking a lot, but it does somethings extremely well. Whats interesting is how people are willing to look past the shortcomings just to have an iPhone. In my case, and in many others, we werent aware of the shortcomings. I mean come on, how can it not have cut and paste?
Apple isnt being aggressive enough in adding features that the iphone lacks. Copycat phones are showing up, they're stealing a lot of ideas from Apple, and they are adding more functionality faster than Apple is. Granted these copycat ui's arent as elaborate or graphical, but they a made by the known players in the cell industry... and they can move very fast.
Missing Features? (Score:3, Interesting)
I'd argue the "lacking" features are what makes the iPhone good. The copycat phones which look like iPhones b ut offer all the features of Windows Mobile are missing the whole freaking point of the iPhone: It's simple and easy to use.
Re:iPhone Owner here. (Score:5, Insightful)
To me, what makes the iPhone special is that it's the first mobile phone where you can actually use all the features it has. Setting up a phone conference recently was simple and straightforward. Someone later tried to explain to me how I could've done the same on the old Nokia company cellphone, but he couldn't remember all the proper steps. That is the difference that counts for me, and even though there's one or two things I'd like my iPhone to be able to do, it's more important to me that what is there is useable.
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Re:iPhone Owner here. (Score:4, Insightful)
You go to the store, pick up your iPhone, activate it in the store or outside, using the code in the package. You then call your family, friends whatever to tell them about this great piece of hardware you got.
Then you proceed home, and copy your music, films, whatever onto the phone USING WHATEVER FILEMANAGER YOUR OS COMES WITH!
Because, let's face it, this tie-in of iPhones and iPods to iTunes stinks. I want apples hardware not the dumb software and the idiotic restrictions (thanks RIAA) the place on the use of the hardware via their crippled software.
End of rant.
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Verizon "hemorrhaging" customers? (Score:5, Informative)
AT&T may be clobbering them, adding new acquisitions to 67.3 million lines [foxbusiness.com] (from 63.7 in June 07), but Verizon has a turnover rate of less than 2% and they've increased the total # of subscribers since the iPhone release.
The fact that the iPhone shookup the wireless industry and forced others to innovate and improve is true, but Verizon isn't dying. They DO need to play catchup with AT&T though; AT&T is widening their lead.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
What? There is no DRM built into the iPod except that it can play FairPlay-encoded files, which is Apple's DRM system (and which Apple is working to phase out besides). Are you confused about how the device works? It does store music in a database-driven format, but that format is not DRM-encumbered and is well-supported by a variety of tools.
Re:Verizon "hemorrhaging" customers? (Score:4, Informative)
How does a checksum make it harder to pull music off the device? The database is still in plaintext as always.
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Nokia phones are open, not iphone (Score:5, Insightful)
I own a Nokia N95 *AND* an Iphone (using t-mobile and at&t respectively), so I think I can judge these fairly.
First, I love the iphone in so many ways. The user interface rocks, web is better than the Symbian one (although they both do real web pages, unlike Apple's claims to be first), and the iphone's email app is much, much faster than that crap on Symbian (I have an inbox of several thousand messages so that might be part of it, but the iphone handles it like a breeze, and quickly)
With that said, I really like how I can do what I want with my unlocked Nokia. I use gizmoproject to do VOIP on it, I can pop in a prepaid overseas SIM when I travel, I can even load putty on it for pete's sake. Bluetooth options are endless including tethering with a data plan.
iphone is crippled in many unforgiveable ways, like crappy bluetooth support (what, I can't send a photo over bluetooth or tether my laptop?), no MMS, lack of WPA enterprise WIFI support (horrible), email app "helpfully" scales down the pics for you to VGA, and on and on.
These are all software design issues, which makes it even more intolerable.
Hopefully Nokia learns some lessons and adapts its software and Apple addresses the shortcomings in a future software update. At least let me use the iphone at work on the wifi network there. Sigh...
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
So I was not watching Symbian scene a while. Yesterday I decided to browse and shop for some stuff, I couldn't believe my eyes. VNC client became open source and free, directly from Nokia along with a Symbian POSIX framework. Symbian added a open source, sourceforge like site, Nokia finally decides to give more iSync plugins direc
open phone vs market impact (Score:3, Informative)
Verizon, conversely, expects that everything you would do with your phone should include a network service function. They own services for pictures, video, music, even your calendar and address book. As a result, they have disabled many of the features provided by phone equipment providers. Furthermore, you cannot buy a phone from an equipment provider and then sign up for Verizon service. This is a really terrible situation for the customer and not likely to last once the market starts to gravitate to separate smart phones and configurable services.
Lastly, don't assume that GSM is the solution to all phone service problems. The sim card is a good idea so that phone service is portable. It is a difficult standard to adjust to higher data rates where CDMA is easier. I suspect the GSM folks will get it figured out, but the phone you have today might not be the one you need in a few years. The battle is not yet fully played.
Jobs Considered Linux? (Score:5, Insightful)
Really? That never stopped him from using FreeBSD or Mach in OS X.
My guess is that it was the GPL that kept Linux out of the iPhone and OS X. This is not meant as a flame against the GPL or Apple, but I am curious if OS X or the iPhone would be based on Linux if they could have gotten it with a BSD license.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm not sure how serious Verizon is about this, although I do know that both AT&T and T-Mobile cross-license their towers, so it doesn't matter what brand of GSM tower is near someone. If Verizon also cross licenses, it wouldn't mean a big expenditure outlay on their part at first (although they would have to build towers to hold up the
Verizon future GSM (Score:3, Informative)
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I've had my iPhone since release day, and it took me about two weeks to really
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-Peter
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William