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Second Google Android Phone Revealed

Posted by CmdrTaco on Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:12 PM
from the probably-will-give-you-cancer dept.
KrispyDroid writes "The world's second Google Android phone has been unveiled — by an Australian-based electronics company called Kogan. It will ship worldwide on Jan 29. It looks like a surprisingly nice form factor, not unlike a Blackberry Bold. The phones will be sold without a contract at low prices — $A299 ($US192)."
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  • For all the hype that Android was to be an open platform, there's no sign yet of a phone that is completely hackable by the end user. The docs are out there, such as The Busy Coder's Guide to Android Development [amazon.com] , so we could see a utopia of community-driven apps, but it seems like Google is uninterested in the end user's extendibility of the platform, which was supposedly it's raison d'etre.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      ...so we could see a utopia of community-driven apps, but it seems like Google is uninterested in the end user's extendibility of the platform, which was supposedly it's raison d'etre.

      How is it Google's fault that developers aren't embracing the platform? It seems like that's the developers doing.
    • If you want something completely open, you can run Trolltech's Qtopia on the latest Openmoko hardware.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        If the openmoko hardware was worth a damn, then maybe.

        It's OK if you don't care for fast data, or being able to reliably make phone calls.

          • by Nursie (632944) on Thursday December 04 2008, @01:19PM (#25991915) Homepage

            It is.

            Unfortunately the software stack written by the openmoko guys is (and it pains me to say this) in a total shambles, and until very recently the developers basically refused to do anything about it, preferring to "look to the future" and make shiny bells and whistles. I'm watching the android software on OM very carefully because it seems to me that when the porting is finished (and it's got a decent way there, it runs and makes calls) it'll turn the OM into a decent phone.

            Yes, there are problems - no camera, no 3G - but it's interesting from a linux-geek perspective at the moment.

              • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

                Nah, it's just poor software as far as I can tell. The infuriating thing about the 2008.X stack (for me) was that the UI was unresponsive so that when you hit "pick up" it would take a while to register the button press. In the mean time I don't know if it's registered it or not so I hit it again. But then the hang up button appears in the same place and it's stored up the mouse click to apply to that...

                Could have killed that damn phone right then.

          • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

            And you're not allowed to complain about it if you aren't going to fix it by yourself!

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward

      The problem is that Android is "tivoizable" and this was actually done on the HTC+TMobile product, making it no more interesting than the iPhone. Until we get a phone that doesn't use any code signing, nobody is going to be very interested in the product, because it's merely an iPhone competitor (and the iPhone has Apple's sexy marketing behind it, so you might as well just develop for that and make more money).

      If this doesn't use any code signing, then this might be the beginning of Android getting seri

      • by Mr2001 (90979) on Thursday December 04 2008, @11:07PM (#25998879) Homepage Journal

        Until we get a phone that doesn't use any code signing, nobody is going to be very interested in the product, because it's merely an iPhone competitor (and the iPhone has Apple's sexy marketing behind it, so you might as well just develop for that and make more money).

        But to develop for the iPhone, you need to get a $99 development license, and then you still have to play by Apple's rules: no emulators, no competing with built-in apps, etc.

        Developing for Android is free, and there are no limitations on what you're allowed to develop or distribute. You can write software that not only competes with built-in apps, but actually replaces them. And you can distribute them through Google's marketplace, through a competing marketplace, through your own web site, or anywhere else.

        Code signing only means that you can't replace the OS with a version you've compiled yourself... but even that is being worked around [arstechnica.com].

    • by Nursie (632944) on Thursday December 04 2008, @12:32PM (#25991163) Homepage

      I have an openmoko freerunner running android, so IMHO that's the second android phone, though it's not on sale with android preinstalled yet, and not everything is working.

      New image today - check out the Openmoko community discussion forum/mail list.

    • by girlintraining (1395911) on Thursday December 04 2008, @12:33PM (#25991187)

      it seems like Google is uninterested in the end user's extendibility of the platform, which was supposedly it's raison d'etre.

      One would hope this isn't the selling point of the phone, but rather that it is a flexible phone that meets the users' needs. The fact that it's hackable and "community-driven" is a means, not an end.

    • If Google was uninterested in the end-user's extensibility of Android, they wouldn't have made the SDK publicly available at no charge.

      I suspect the reason the G1 won't allow installation of non-signed firmware is due to carrier (T-Mobile) requirements, not because Google doesn't want you to be able to hack it.

    • by recharged95 (782975) on Thursday December 04 2008, @01:07PM (#25991711) Journal
      If it does come out, Koolu [koolu.com] is the answer to your question. Unfortunately it's a bit immature though they promised a working version last month (didn't happen). It shows promise. I thought it was a pipe dream as they are late on delivery, BUT you can download the source here [koolu.org], which shows commitment at least.

      .

      I'm running the openmoko Android version from Sean McNeil (check out openmoko's wiki) in dual boot mode, along with Qtopia and it shows promise too, though I think koolu's team of devs will likely reach a optimized distro quicker. Comparing both the G1 and Freerunner, Android runs faster on the G1 (of course), where as the Freerunner has the ArmV4 compatibility issue (DOH!) and the lack of keyboard (all OM touchscreen keyboards fail at this current time).

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        Have you tried todays image from Sean and the latest (oversize) kernel?

        You'll need to mess around with uboot to get the large kernel going, but after that it has an onscreen keyboard and you can answer calls with it.

        Far from perfect, but making progress. I do want to see what Koolu have done too.

    • by unixfan (571579) on Thursday December 04 2008, @02:18PM (#25992859) Homepage

      What about supporting open media formats like OGG and FLAC?!! The owner talks bout being a long time OSS supporter, but ignores these vital formats! Weak!

    • by mmurphy000 (556983) on Thursday December 04 2008, @03:48PM (#25994149)

      there's no sign yet of a phone that is completely hackable by the end user

      If you're referring to the ability to replace the firmware, that is definitely a disappointment. However, that's between HTC and T-Mobile. With Android published under the Apache License 2.0, there's not much anyone can do to force HTC and T-Mobile to allow self-signed firmware. My hope, though, is that some of these non-carrier devices, like the one cited in the OP, will allow replacement firmware. Only time will tell.

      The docs are out there, such as The Busy Coder's Guide to Android Development.

      Thanks for the shout-out!

      so we could see a utopia of community-driven apps, but it seems like Google is uninterested in the end user's extendibility of the platform, which was supposedly it's raison d'etre.

      On the apps front, I suspect part of the hang-up is that the Android Market — the closest counterpart to the iPhone App Store — is only supporting free apps right now. Vendors interested in turning a buck (or yen or euro or whatever) either need to use one of the other markets or wait for the Android Market to start supporting paid-for apps. That's reputedly coming in Q1.

      Even given that, the Android Market has a fair number of apps there. I don't remember the release rates for the iPhone apps when its SDK was released, but I'd be a bit surprised if Android is dramatically off the pace. Yes, many of the apps are trivial (umpteen tip calculators, flashlights, etc.), but it's not like every iPhone or WinMo app is a blockbuster. Considering hardware has been available for 5-6 weeks, I'm relatively pleased with the response to date, for what my opinion is worth.

  • OMG (Score:3, Funny)

    by sexconker (1179573) on Thursday December 04 2008, @12:29PM (#25991089)

    The first gPhone was good, but not great.
    Android's had some growing pains, but now we've finally got a real iPhone killer on our hands.

    (Yes, they call every Android-based phone a "gPhone".)

  • by ribuck (943217) <roger@eiffel.demon.co.uk> on Thursday December 04 2008, @12:33PM (#25991177) Homepage
    From Kogan's website: [kogan.com.au]

    The design of the Kogan Agora and Kogan Agora Pro, when dispatched, will be materially similar to the images set out on this website. Despite this, Kogan Technologies reserves the right to make non-material modifications to the design of the phones in its sole discretion.

    Also, I won't be surprised if the shipping date slips.

  • by rixster_uk (1216414) on Thursday December 04 2008, @12:34PM (#25991195)
    Follow the money - manufacturer makes the phone, sells it for x to the network. If and only if network sees a potential to earn at least x/2 from services (internet / sms /mms etc etc ) will it then allow you to buy the phone for x/2...
    If the OS was fully open, then there would be no incentive for the network to buy the phone and subsidize the price - i.e. if you want a truly open phone - you'll get it but at a price.
    Shameless plug: I've got both the iphone sdk and the android sdk - I find the google sdk 20x easier to get stuff done and the marketplace puts your apps up *instantly* (upgrades and all). However, the marketplace is suffering from kids abusing the comment capability but when that's nailed (and of course the ability to actually charge for apps) I think we will see very high quality apps coming out for the google phone. Or at least I hope so - I'm writing a game in progress which I hope to earn a bit of cash. (Even more shameless plug : http://www.barcodebeasties.com/ [barcodebeasties.com] )
  • by caseih (160668) on Thursday December 04 2008, @12:34PM (#25991203)

    I don't really need or want an iPhone or an Android phone. What I want is a nice, compact, multi-touch platform like the iPod Touch that runs android. Android has the potential to power a real iPod killer that's a nice platform for all kinds of apps.

    Initially I was very excited about the iPod Touch and bought one. But Apple's desire to completely and utterly control what I do with my own device has really turned me off of it. If I could have a similar device that was open to installation of apps and development without deferring to the whims of Google or any other manufacturer, I'd gladly shell out another $300 for an android device sans phone. Seems like manufactures aren't even bothering to compete with Apple in general (maybe android isn't good enough to compete with the iPhone and iPod touch), but rather are aiming for the already existing market of mediocre products such as blackberry, palm, and windows smartphones. Kind of sad, really. In this market things like video and audio playback seem almost like afterthoughts, which poorly designed apps to do this and little to no support for integrating with PC-based software, such as would be similar to iTunes. Sure you can dump songs on a little chip, but how well does the playback system work? is it fully integrated like it is on the iPhone and obviously the iPod Touch? How well can it integrate with Amarok or Songbird? Seems like there are a lot of opportunities here. Of course maybe they feel the mp3 player market is so saturated that it doesn't matter. After all business users care mainly about their e-mail. I get the impression I will never be in the target market for any of these companies.

    • by Nursie (632944) on Thursday December 04 2008, @12:42PM (#25991331) Homepage

      "I'd gladly shell out another $300 for an android device sans phone."

      Android can successfully be run on the Nokia N810, An internet tablet with WiFi (and there's a WiMAX version too).

      Maybe a little more than $300, but as a foreigner I don't know how to access google US to do a shopping search.

      • by EvilNTUser (573674) on Thursday December 04 2008, @02:19PM (#25992871)

        The N810 already runs Linux with a Nokia UI. There's no reason to install Android.

        In addition, Nokia has been shipping phones that let you install anything you want for years, and their phone OS will become open source as of next year. They even provide native Python interpreters.

        The main reason Nokia is so unpopular in the US is that they refused to cripple their phones as much as the carriers wanted. Unfortunately even nerds in America are apparently too dependent on force fed advertising.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      Android has the potential to power a real iPod killer...

      I've read that, in regards to other products, about 100 times before. Eventually it'll be true...
      • by caseih (160668) on Thursday December 04 2008, @02:05PM (#25992643)

        I'm afraid you've dramatically missed the point. I'm not interested in selling my soul to Apple for this privilege. Initially I only made the purchase (and arguably it was foolish) because I knew I could jailbreak the device and do what I wanted with it. However, Apple chose to go to war against those who would use the device in ways Apple didn't want (oh the irony of living in a free country) and they have decided it's illegal for me to use my iPod to sync against Amarok if I ever upgrade to 2.x (which they practically force on me every time I plug it into a computer with iTunes on it).

        I want a platform that I'm free to do anything I want with, since I own it. I want to be able to write new software, access the shell, sync against amarok, etc. I don't want to pay apple $100 for the privilege of accessing a device I already own and should have access too. That's just silly and a bit ludicrous if you think about it. Cue the bad car analogies... Sure we'll sell you a car. But if you want access to the trunk you have to pay us for a trunk license and then we reserve the right to take away the key at any time if we see fit.

        As for being compensated for my work, Apple's policies don't even allow GPL'd software at all, so I couldn't even offer my work to others to begin with.

        In hindsight, the iPod was a stupid buy. It doesn't work well with just about anything. I can't easily attach peripherals to it, except what Apple sanctions. However at the time it was the best device (when jailbroken) on the planet. I'm hoping that a device with Android will reach that point soon.

  • by quarterbuck (1268694) on Thursday December 04 2008, @12:41PM (#25991315)
    They are selling them at $299 on their website [kogan.com.au]
    $399 with Camera and GPS .
    I hope the prices are in Australian dollars, that would make it a pretty good buy
    And the website has this comment "PRE-ORDER NOW TO AVOID DISAPPOINTMENT - DEMAND WILL EXCEED SUPPLY!"
    I wonder how they know for certain that demand WILL exceed supply ?
  • Display resoultion (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Eric Smith (4379) <eric@brouhah[ ]om ['a.c' in gap]> on Thursday December 04 2008, @12:46PM (#25991393) Homepage Journal
    Is half that of the G1. Not bad for the price, but if I had to choose between the two I'd pick the G1. Since I'm a developer, I'll buy one anyhow, to ensure that my apps work well on it.
  • by Andy_R (114137) on Thursday December 04 2008, @12:48PM (#25991431) Homepage Journal

    The first thing that strikes me about this phone is that the spec is noticeably different from the other shipping Android phone, the screen is 320x240 not 480x320, and the camera is 2 megapixel not 3.2.

    It will be very interesting to see how well the software on the AppStore^H^H^H^H Android MarketTM works on different hardware, and how many developers will be willing and/or able to patch their software to work on it.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      Android applications, if properly made, are pretty screen-agnostic. The UI layout code is designed to heavily emphasize relative placement rather than absolute. Hell, even on the G1 you need a little leeway because of the way everything changes size when you flip the screen orientation.

      Overall, only the very laziest developers should have to do any significant patching, if any at all.

    • by joshv (13017) on Thursday December 04 2008, @02:46PM (#25993283)

      It is sometimes *really* hard to make apps that work at all resolutions when you don't have much screen real estate. One of my apps will break horribly on this new screen layout, and I am not sure how to fix it. The other should work ok, but it won't be as usable, and will limit the amount of functionality. Detecting all this will be an utter nightmare.

      My guess is that many of the android market apps will not work properly on this new phone.

      This is what I like about the iPhone - there is *one* resolution and two orientations - that's it.

  • Dollars? (Score:3, Funny)

    by 19061969 (939279) on Thursday December 04 2008, @01:32PM (#25992133)
    Is this USD or AUD? The page seems to be a US page (and anyway, USD is the most commonly quoted currency) but it discusses a phone being released in Oz so I'm not sure.
  • Having had the iPhone since early first generation, I recently decided to try out the G1, and I have been very pleasantly surprised. Feature-wise it's pretty much on par with the iPhone, but I've found the UI to (surprisingly enough) be more user-friendly and substantially more responsive (opening the contact list on the iPhone takes forever, for example). The web browser is a lot easier to use anywhere you need to deal with forms, too.

    After the major issues I've had with the iPhone (dropped calls, completely missed calls that never ever register on the phone, random total system crashes, etc...), I would honestly recommend Android over it for anybody who doesn't have an obsessive Apple fetish. So far it just seems to work more smoothly and reliably. It being much more open is icing on the cake, and conveys some very obvious advantages, like how developers are encouraged to make drop-in replacements for its built-in components (like a new email program), whereas Apple apparently forbids the same practice on the iPhone.

    Overall, I'm definitely gonna be sticking with my Android phone, but thankfully first gen iPhones still resell for a decent price :) It's good to see more models coming out--hopefully it'll really start catching on.

    • Re:HTC Touch Dream (Score:5, Informative)

      by VagaStorm (691999) on Thursday December 04 2008, @12:19PM (#25990935) Homepage
      The HTC dream is currently only sold as TMobile G1 in the us, where as this one is sold world wide, at a decent price to :)
    • Re:HTC Touch Dream (Score:5, Interesting)

      by digitalunity (19107) <digitalunity&yahoo,com> on Thursday December 04 2008, @01:07PM (#25991709) Homepage

      The phone you speak of is sold in the US under contract or at ridiculous retail prices without contract. This phone is unique as it's one of the few phones with excellent functionality that can be purchased at a reasonable cost without a contract.

      Most consumers actually like getting their phones at very low subsidized cost through their wireless carrier but I'm a firm believer this has an astoundingly negative impact on competition. The wireless carriers dictate to the device manufacturers which features are allowed.

      Separating phone functionality from the control of the carriers will TREMENDOUSLY improve competition and have a very beneficial impact on end users. I'm a little surprised the FTC hasn't stepped in already on behalf of consumers. Wireless plans in the US have gone up dramatically in cost over the last 15 years. The phone companies like to quote cost:minute rates because it makes them look cheaper. The fact is, the cost of text messaging has gone UP and data transfer rates are still prohibitive for most end users to really use the full capacity of their phones.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        I agree that data plans are pretty ridiculous, but I think we will move away from the "per text message charge" era and people will embrace the unlimited plans. When everyone is offering a true unlimited plan for $99, then choosing networks is actually a matter of networks or unique features. I think it will force carriers to improve their networks and offer better speeds, or start lowering the price of their unlimited plan.

        • Re:HTC Touch Dream (Score:5, Insightful)

          by bberens (965711) on Thursday December 04 2008, @02:09PM (#25992729)
          I see the problem a little differently. Right now EVERY SINGLE rate plan is priced so that the carrier can subsidize the price of the phone. If I go to a carrier they will give me a free phone or at the very least dramatically reduce the price of the phone if I sign a contract for 2 years. In my imaginary example let's say I get a contract + phone for $50/mo for 2 years. Now if I go to that same carrier and say I ALREADY have a phone I would like to use, what is the cost of service? They will respond: Well, we have this $50/mo plan for you. In the current market I'm paying for the 'subsidized' phone whether I get the phone or not, which is ridiculous. The only way to NOT have to do this is to get a pay as you go plan, which is annoying because I don't want to have to keep buying cards/minutes. I just want to pay $40/mo for the same plan I could get for $50/mo + phone. Until the phone is no longer subsidized by the rate plans, I don't think we'll every be free of this ridiculous system.
      • Software locks in the form of chroot jails and forbidding root on your own device, such as those that Android phones and the iPhone line have.

        If this obstruction is removed, my (jailbroken) iPhone will be on eBay faster than you can say "screw you, Steve Jobs."

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      Until it ships, we won't know how open it is. Even ignoring the carrier lock, the G1 won't install non-signed firmware, so it's less open than many of us would like. Since the Kogan phone isn't carrier-locked, maybe it will allow non-signed firmware as well.
    • Re: yes 3G (Score:4, Funny)

      by Em Ellel (523581) on Thursday December 04 2008, @01:26PM (#25992037)

      For you and other reading-challenged - from the very beginning of the article:

      Both models include HSDPA 3G, Bluetooth 2.0+ EDR, QWERTY keyboard, 2.5â touchscreen and a microSD slot. The Pro adds WiFi, GPS and a 2.0 megapixel camera to the base model's specs.