Slashdot Log In
EU Wants Removable Batteries In iPhones
Posted by
CmdrTaco
on Thu Oct 09, 2008 10:39 AM
from the so-do-i dept.
from the so-do-i dept.
MojoKid writes "Current regulation, introduced with the Restriction of Hazardous Substances Directive (RoHS) in July of 2006, primarily
sought to prevent the unnecessary use of toxic metals in batteries as well as making it easier to recycle and dispose of used batteries. The updated 'New Batteries Directive,' as
discussed in
New Electronics by Gary Nevision, would go much further. Article 11 of the
directive, as currently written, would require that devices must be made in such a way as to allow batteries, either
for replacement or at end of life for disposal to be 'readily removed.' Of course, Apple's iPhones and iPods wouldn't meet this requirement, as it stands. It's obvious that an iPhone battery replacement program could be considered a cash cow for Apple as well."
Related Stories
This discussion has been archived.
No new comments can be posted.
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
Full
Abbreviated
Hidden
Loading... please wait.
Mooo (Score:5, Informative)
You mean this iPhone battery replacement program [apple.com]?
$85.95! That's a lot of milk.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
When the battery costs 12$ to buy yeah, I'd say 74$ in profit for replacing the battery is a lot of milk.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Except that most phone batteries I've seen (at least those sold by the original manufacturer as replacement parts or upgrades) are significantly more expensive than $20.
And the big issue is that if you want the battery to be user replaceable, you have to design the case to be easily openable by the end user. This puts constraints on the design of both the case and resulting battery that would likely make the current designs impossible to replicate. And it's those designs that are a substantial fraction of t
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I believe that you're looking for this:
An iPhone that had a user replaceable battery would be an iPhone that sucks a little more than the current one, and IMHO it would not be a net benefit.
Heck I own an (2G) iPhone and I am quite happy with it, but justifying the lack of an user replaced battery this way is just silly. He could try arguing that way no third party batteries will find their way into iPhones and explode, but there has been a fine share of iPods exploding and melting down as well. I refuse to believe that adding a suitable battery compartment like every other fucking phone manufacturer out there has done would make the iPhone suck more. If
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
At least you provided some arguments that show how you believe the lack of an user serviceable battery is a feature, but I'm sorry, I think they are all BS. No offense, I hope. You could be right if a removable battery wasn't such a trivial thing to add. Even the position of the battery in the current iPhone design doesn't need to be changed: they just needed to provide a conector and latches. Heck, Apple didn't invent mobile phones, people been doing this since, like, forever. It wouldn't add much to the c
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Mooo (Score:4, Informative)
$15.. do it yourself. I have changed out the batteries in three IPods already.
Parent
Re:Mooo (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Mooo (Score:5, Funny)
(yes, it's a joke, but it will probably also be their defense)
Parent
Re:Mooo (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
Is it really that much of a burden to resync your device? I'd prefer that they wipe down my device.
It protects both parties. I know that they're not perusing my personal documents, and Apple doesn't take any liability for whatever I've loaded onto my iPod. It comes back , I plug it in and iTunes resyncs it. That is pretty good for it just works.
$85.95 is unconscionable though.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Beats me. I bought my only iPod without realizing the insane cost of battery replacement. When the battery failed after less than a year of low use, I spent a few bucks more than the battery replacement would have cost me and bought something non-Apple (twice the storage, three times the battery life, if I remember correctly). I have stayed away from Apple products ever since.
While there are stories of those with batteries that seem to last forever, the general feeling I get is that Apple keep marginalizing
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I guess you have never tried a Nokia E61 or, for that matter, the many Windows Smartphones where even if youy don't like mobile IE, there is always Opera.
Re:Mooo (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Mooo (Score:4, Insightful)
Wow, so instead of letting Apple replace the battery for free within the one year warranty, you bought a new device - yeah, you sure showed us what an clever, money-conscious guy you are.
He ended up spending 'a few bucks more' to get a device with twice the storage & three times the battery life.
Its called not throwing good money after bad.
Parent
Re: (Score:3)
and have the data wiped [...] and have to re sync everything
You're so cute. You do realize that that happens automatically, right? You plug in your refurbished device and while the new battery is charging, it gets everything put back just the way you had it before.
Re:Mooo (Score:5, Insightful)
While it may be a cash cow for the company, isn't an official battery replacement program a "good thing" environmentally?
Placing the responsibility to replace batteries on the corporation allows it to be monitored and regulated. Leaving battery replacement in the hands of users makes it easy to throw out the old battery with your weekly garbage collection. I have to be honest - I'm not sure what sort of battery programs are in my area and it seems like going out of my way considerably to find out. Besides, I doubt most people have any awareness of how its bad to dispose of batteries in the garbage... Until its made a priority on a large scale, what worth exists in wasting my time to do some small part?
Parent
Re:Mooo (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, and no.
While they can spin it very positively, the truth is, at that price you're better off buying a new player... and that's probably what they're hoping too (they are a business, after all...). And what do you do with your old player when you get a new one? ... chuck it. Very environmentally friendly.
If you want people to do the "right thing", you don't charge them through the nose to do it, you have to give them the fewest reasons *not* to do it... and in my book, an outrageous replacement price = reason not to replace.
Besides, when Apple had that massive battery recall a few years back, they sent my gf her new battery but with no way to return her old one (we're on Canada here). When she contacted them to ask how she could return it, they just responded "do whatever you want with it". Nice.
I agree about the lack of easily-accessible programs for recycling :( Our local enviro-coop has their own, but its not obvious...
Parent
Re:Mooo (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
This is positive legislation. It is going to ensure that customers have cheaper and competitive ways to replace batteries.
Re:Mooo (Score:4, Insightful)
This is positive legislation. It is going to ensure that customers have cheaper and competitive ways to replace batteries.
And just throw the old ones in the trash.
Parent
cash cow how? (Score:2)
I don't see how this would be a cash cow for Apple - they already replace batteries as often as they can. In fact, it's detrimental to the company since now people will simply replace batteries instead of buying a new iPod. In addition, converting their designs and manufacturing process will to meet this requirement will cost Apple dearly.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm actually quite surprised at Apple's decision to lock the batteries in the device. The only thing I can think of is planned obsolescence to spur more sales. Which would be a pretty sleazy thing to do. [Or maybe a pretty profitable thing to do.]
Re:cash cow how? (Score:5, Insightful)
Or it's a design thing. You know. No extra hinges, lines, anything.
Parent
Re:cash cow how? (Score:5, Informative)
Could you please point me to the model you have? I can only find 4-8GB flash players. One review [mp3.com] even has It's bulky for a flash player. as a "The Bad".
I just went to Insignia's website and found 2 models. A 4GB MP3 [insignia-products.com] player and an 8GB Video/MP3 [insignia-products.com] player. (Aside from their website seemingly written by 2 completely different groups, both had different units, 4GB in metric, 8GB in English)
4GB
Dimensions:
15mm X 46mm X 102mm (.59" X 1.8" X 4.0")
Weight: 0.068 kg (2.4 oz)
8GB
Dimensions:
10.16mm X 40.65 mm X 83.83mm (0.4" X 1.6" X 3.3")
Weight: 0.060kg (2.1 oz.)
This is the specs for the current Nano (which comes in 8 or 16 GB).
Dimensions:
6.2mm X 38.7mm X 90.7mm (0.24" X 1.5" X 3.6")
Weight:
0.037 grams (1.3 ounces)
And here's a "big ole" iPod Classic. .140 kg (4.9 ounces)
Dimensions:
10.5 mm X 61.8 mm X 103.5 mm (0.41" X 2.4" X 4.1")
Weight:
So by "not making the device any larger" you mean making the device larger? Not to mention the for the difference between the Nano and the Insignia, you could go up to a Classic and have 15X the storage space.
Parent
Back handed protectionism (Score:4, Interesting)
This is the EU basically trying to protect its markets for its own cell phone makers. I would think Nokia might be pushing for a regulation like this.
Watch carefully! There will probably be some nice sounding safety or environmental standard coming out of Washington somewhere that is the tit for this tat.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Back handed protectionism (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Back handed protectionism (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
bullshit. every other cellphone has removable batteries and the european iphone market is very weak anyway.
iPhone??? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
So you know of other devices besides iPod's and iTouch's and iPhones that don't already meet this directive?
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
My Sansa E2?? doesn't have an easy popout battery that I can find. I haven't looked close enough but it has a few screws on the back.
To some people what's the difference between a tiny screwdriver and a case splitter for the iPod. If I did get inside it's not like the battery is something I could go down to Best Buy and get. So how is it any more easily replaced?
Re: (Score:2)
My entire household is almost litterally filled with devices contain rechargable batteries. From my toothbrush and razor to my wireless headphones and clocks. Even my PC has rechargeable batteries in it.
Want to guess how many of these, other than my iPod, aren't designed to be user removeable? Zero.
Granted, my toothbrush and razor both are designed so that the process of removing the battery 'breaks' the device. But both have clearly marked instructions indicating this should be done before throwing them aw
400 recharges (Score:2, Insightful)
Apparently after 400 recharges the battery is down to 80% of its life (I don't know how they've tested this). http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=327614 [macrumors.com]
Given I've had to charge the battery twice a day on occasions and if you attach to a computer for itunes then that counts as a recharge, you can see how this would run out quicker than a normal battery.
Then again, you replace your phone every 18 months, why would you want a new battery when you're going to get rid of it soon?
Re:400 recharges (Score:5, Informative)
Fractional charges only count as fractional charges. If your iphone is at 80% and you plug it into your computer and it charges up to 100% that is only 1/5th of a charge. You can do that 5 more times before you have even used a single recharge.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Actually, it's a little better than that. The "cycle life vs. DoD*" curve is not linear.
*DoD = Depth of Discharge. LiIons at 80% DoD get a "cycle life" of about 500. 80% seems to be pretty much the standard, to balance cycle life and volume+mass, but the improvement you get from reducing DoD is better than linear for a big range. (and the pain you get from increasing DoD is also worse than linear over a big range. This is one of the reasons that "deep cycling" a.k.a. battery conditioning is almost alwa
I agree on principle, but: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:I agree on principle, but: (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Why apple doesn't do this... (Score:5, Insightful)
Apple is obsessed with thin packaging. Look at the iPhone, nano, or iPod touch. A removable battery would add a good 2mm of thickness, which may not sound like much, but thats a good 30% increase in thickness.
Re:Why apple doesn't do this... (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Isn't it possible that Steve Jobs loves both good design AND profits?
Re:Why apple doesn't do this... (Score:4, Informative)
I believe it. 10 years of Apple products is more than convincing:
iPod->iPod touch (notice how thin it got)
iBook->MacBook Air (notice how small/thin it got)
And you use the word "anticompetitive" in a funny way. You make it sound like Apple's business motive is making money off battery replacements. Apple sells iPods/Macs/iPhones, not batteries. The battery is an incidental, and probably even less profitable than the iTunes store.
The thin design has multiple benefits for Apple:
Higher product density (therefore higher profits per cubic foot storage)
Smaller products are cheaper to ship (lower costs per cubic foot shipping)
Smaller products require less packaging (lower cost per unit)
Smaller products require less material (lower cost per unit)
So there are many reasons beyond design or anticompetitive to make things small/thin
Parent
Removable vs Replacable (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't get confused, what the EU are after is a removable battery that can be safely disposed of. It is not the same as replacable.
ie, it might be perfectly acceptable to have the battery fitted in such a way it can easily be ripped off the surface mount on the motherboard for disposal but in the process destroying the ipod/iphone.
What we (the ipod using public) have wanted is a user-replaceable battery - but we're unlikely to get this because not only does it add to the cost, complexity and size of the product, it also more importantly makes it less easy for Steve to sell us a newer ipod in 2 years time when the battery is still working but at that annoying "just not quite enough battery to last me the day" level.
Battery recycling (Score:3, Insightful)
As far as extended warranty programs, most are a rip off. The apple programs, however, at least on the pro laptops and the iphone, have shown value to me. These are expensive pieces of gear, and even 20% over a few years is not out of line. It takes care of the battery, and any damage. When you consider that ATT will charge you $175 in the US to break a contract, the $69 applecare is put into perspective, though it does not cover loss.
In general I would hate to see laws that required or forbade removable batteries. What I would like to see is more retailers forced to take back electronics that they sell, perhaps with a small discount if you buy an equivalent device. Straight money back might encourage theft. Non replaceable batteries are not an environmental problem, they are an engineering decision and customer preference. The envronmental problem is that consumers throw batteries and electronics away because there is no easy way to dispose of them properly.
It's all about the Zune (Score:3, Funny)
How do you know they are not targeting the Zune?
Looks like another anti Microsoft move by the EU to me.
Where's my tinfoil hat when I need it.....
Replaceable batteries are bad for the environment (Score:3, Interesting)
Replaceable batteries most likely end up in the trash and then the landfill and if a battery is replaceable the manufacturer of the device will most likely look for the cheapest source for those batteries since they assume that the consumer will simply buy a replacement placing the extra cost of a longer lasting battery on the consumer.