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Apple Drops Part of iPhone Developer NDA
Posted by
timothy
on Wed Oct 01, 2008 12:50 PM
from the squawky-wheel-gets-degreased dept.
from the squawky-wheel-gets-degreased dept.
ds writes "Apple, this morning, announced they are dropping the iPhone Developer NDA in respect to released software. Previously, iPhone developers were legally bound even after their software had been released."
Another reader adds, "Early release software is still covered, but this should bring about increased developer interaction, as well as a slew of iPhone dev books." The complete message about the NDA change can be seen for now at Apple's iPhone Developer site, and is reproduced below.
"We have decided to drop the non-disclosure agreement (NDA) for released iPhone software.
We put the NDA in place because the iPhone OS includes many Apple inventions and innovations that we would like to protect, so that others don't steal our work. It has happened before. While we have filed for hundreds of patents on iPhone technology, the NDA added yet another level of protection. We put it in place as one more way to help protect the iPhone from being ripped off by others.
However, the NDA has created too much of a burden on developers, authors and others interested in helping further the iPhone's success, so we are dropping it for released software. Developers will receive a new agreement without an NDA covering released software within a week or so. Please note that unreleased software and features will remain under NDA until they are released.
Thanks to everyone who provided us constructive feedback on this matter."
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About freaking time (Score:2, Redundant)
Seriously, what took apple so long?
Re:About freaking time (Score:5, Insightful)
They were probably waiting for Android to be released.
Parent
Android (Score:5, Insightful)
They wanted to wait for the Android release so the API could not legally borrow too heavily from the iPhone API.
At least, that seems like a reasonable guess...
Parent
Re:Android (Score:5, Insightful)
They wanted to wait for the Android release so the API could not legally borrow too heavily from the iPhone API.
I highly doubt it. Google has their own Mac developers and one of the first apps bundled on the iPhone was a YouTube video program. Google has had access to the iPhone API's long before most other developers. Google Mobile App was available on the App Store since July 3. Besides, IIRC, Android is based on Java whereas the iPhone OS X is based on Objective C. More likely, the fear of iPhone developers leaving for Android was an incentive. Hopefully they'll go ahead and drop the whole darned thing since any Tom, Dick or Harry can sign up for the ADC and download the dev tools.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Spend months developing your application under strict NDA terms and get your application rejected because some idiot working at App Store thinks it has potential to be competitive?
I don't feel pity for iPhone developers. It is same as customers. They accept such abuse while buying the device or firing up XCode new iPhone app project.
Java is also object oriented and there is a very object oriented OS in hand which has more than 200 million users. Symbian that is. Symbian developers could release working iPho
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
I fucking hate FOSS fanboys.
Re: (Score:2)
Parent post should NOT be modded "troll" (Score:4, Insightful)
People are making massive amounts of money [wired.com] from the iPhone App Store. There is nothing else out there like it. Google doesn't even have their store up yet, and after their last attempt at something like that [arstechnica.com], it is not at all certain that they can actually make it work.
Not to mention the fact that Android hasn't so far turned out to be the open-source panacea that everyone thought it would be. You have to program in Java [google.com] and don't have access to low-level hardware like bluetooth any more so than on the iPhone.
The cellphone industry isn't "rapidly" doing anything other than playing catch-up to Apple. So far they still have a long way to go.
Parent
Re:You Have To Be Joking (Score:4, Insightful)
Apple is facing a mass exodus of phone developers with their constant blunders from secrecy and rejecting apps that threaten their own apps.
Did you just make that up?
The cellphone industry is rapidly moving to Android as their standard platform
Even if this is true... so what? Since Apple doesn't offer their platform to other makers, why would they care what other makers use?
This is just the first step in Apple's fade into niche irrelevance in the cellphone market.
If you take a step back, you'd see that they are already in a niche - supplying just a tiny fraction of cell phones. However, as they always seem to do, they picked a very profitable niche. If it gets too competitive, I wouldn't expect to see them hang around.
Parent
Re:You Have To Be Joking (Score:5, Insightful)
I disagree. I think that the market is largely driven by what consumers want. Apple has a huge head start--they are quite literally years ahead on hardware/software integration, having released a product that has yet to see any equal in overall end-user experience. People absolutely love the iPhone. Relatively speaking, they haven't even heard of what the competitors are offering, and even the recent release of Android has received minimal attention by comparison.
Now that I've established the context, it's easy to see why handset manufacturers and non-AT&T providers in the US are embracing Android. It is their best shot at competing with Apple. They moved too slow, lacked long-term vision, and failed to concede to Apple's demands. And now they're scrambling to keep up. iPhone + iTunes + App Store = killer combination. This has nothing to do with FOSS. Face it, few people have even seen what Android does, let alone have any real-world understanding of how well it will integrate with a variety of handsets and carriers. Because it hasn't happened yet. Maybe it'll be a competitor, maybe it won't. But I can confidently say that whatever the outcome, it won't look or feel nearly as clean as an Apple product.
I've also heard that despite a lot of grumblings by iPhone developers, they generally like the business model. Steve Demeter, for example, is on the record for saying he has no intention of bringing Trism to Android. This coming from a guy who made a quarter million in two months off his blockbuster game. So I don't think you're telling the whole story here. It's the secrecy they don't like, and with this latest turn, Apple has done the right thing.
Frankly, I'm amazed that you didn't get modded down. Your bias is so clearly showing and you lack any evidence to back up your outrageous claims. I think Android can be huge, and I like that Google has stepped up to provide more competition in the mobile computing market. I hope it lives up to the high expectations that the industry has set for it, but I'm not holding my breath because judging from how Motorola, Sony Ericsson, RIM, Palm, Samsung, LG, Nokia, T-Mobile, Verizon, Sprint, etc. have behaved in the past, I don't think they're going to all have some kind of Voltron moment and band together to bring down the "evil Apple."
After all, you're just cheering for one evil corporation to smite the other. Personally, what matters to me most is whether I get the user experience and customer service I expect. If Android facilitates this goal, then I'm all for it. But you won't catch me talking complete bullshit just because I have a stick up my ass about a particular company. That's so last decade.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
What makes Apple special on hardware/software integration? You're seriously asking this question? Since when has Nokia or Motorola come out with anything that looks remotely like iTMS? Since when have they developed a UI that is easy to use and intuitive? If I have to hunt through a labyrinth of nested menus to change a setting on my phone, that's poor design, UI as an afterthought. Who was the first to employ an an orientation sensor in a phone, a multi-touch screen, and other hardware improvements a
The Joke Speaketh (Score:5, Insightful)
Apple is facing a mass exodus of phone developers with their constant blunders from secrecy and rejecting apps that threaten their own apps.
As an iPhone developer, I could only pray that would be true. Contrary to your assertion though there seems to be a pretty good inlflux of new developers, and thus new competition, into the iPhone application development realm. And of course, lifting the NDA means all of the most experienced developers can now offer help to everyone, further increasing developer interest and retention and shared knowledge (not that a lot of that was not happening already, but now that books can be published...).
The cellphone industry is rapidly moving to Android as their standard platform with Motorola being the latest large cellphone company to embrace Google's open source OS with a ramp up of their internal Android team to 500 people.
Awesome for Android (which I like and may also develop apps for at some point), sucks to be Windows Mobile. Not sure I see any impact on the iPhone though.
To suggest that there is some sort of secret and valuable information in the iPhone SDK that anyone cares about is absolutely inane.
To suggest that many best practices for advanced development techniques have been easy to find is far more inane. Yes you know there's a UITableViewController. Do you know how to make cells using Interface Builder? Or how to have a text view become first responder as you enter a screen?
This is just the first step in Apple's fade into niche irrelevance in the cellphone market.
Careful there, your spittle is starting to obscure your writing.
Just another funny Apple Hater I guess. Tired of having his normal user ID pummeled by reason...
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Apple is facing a mass exodus of phone developers with their constant blunders from secrecy and rejecting apps that threaten their own apps.
Apple is facing a mass exodus of OSS zealots with their constant blunders from secrecy and rejecting apps that threaten their own apps.
There, fixed that for you.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Actually, isn't this move arguably their step back away from that edge? The developer backlash from the App-denial situation (and the NDA situation) was threatening to put them in a bad spot, and this is a decision in the developers' favor.
Yeah but how many times do you have to be bitten as a developer before you stop going back. I know if I had spent a bunch of time and effort making a complete phone app only to have it rejected at the last minute for some capricious reason, that would be the last time I
Re:About freaking time (Score:5, Insightful)
I suspect they were waiting for Android. Prior to its arrival, they were pretty much the only game in town, so there wasn't really anywhere for disgruntled developers to flee to.
Parent
While you're rewriting history... (Score:3, Funny)
Prior to [android], they were pretty much the only game in town, so there wasn't really anywhere for disgruntled developers to flee to.
Damn, you mean I've been hallucinating that Palm, Microsoft, and Nokia have been shipping smartphone software since the '90s?
While you're rewriting history, why don't you take care of that annoying hohocaust thing as well?
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
You're telling me that in 2006 and 2007 that the same people who would buy an iPod went out and bought WinMo and Treos?
No, they probably bought RAZRs. And most of them are still buying something like RAZRs. The market for smartphones (even if we include the iPhone) is tiny.
In 2007 when the iPhone was only available for half a year and only in the US, it was the number 2 handset!
In 2000 when the iPaq was only available for half a year, it brought the Windows Mobile share of the PDA market from single digits
Recovery time needed (Score:3, Funny)
They had to recover from the clubbing they got from developers.
Did uncle Steve have any alternative? (Score:3, Interesting)
Let's just check the facts:
Número uno: The internet hated the NDA. Not only the goodwill and fanboyism that Apple gets for free was up for grabs; but also there was a real chance that Apple might become the new Microsoft in public opinion.
Número dos: Google does not fight the internet, and brought out Android. Android is gonna get some traction, not least for being open-source, for coming up with cool apps that google awarded prizes for, and for securing your developer's rights to distribute.
N
So you still cant bitch about being rejected? (Score:3, Interesting)
Developers will receive a new agreement without an NDA covering released software within a week or so. Please note that unreleased software and features will remain under NDA until they are released.
If I read this right, does that mean developers still can't publicly bitch about their apps being rejected from the store?
Re:So you still cant bitch about being rejected? (Score:5, Informative)
No. The NDA only covers Apple's stuff, it does not and cannot cover yours. (Developers couldn't talk about their stuff, but only because talking about their stuff implied talking about Apple's stuff.)
When Apple says unreleased software they mean their unreleased software. You can talk about your unreleased software all you want, so long as this doesn't involve things like betas of new iPhone OSes.
In other words, the policy is going to be the same as it is for Mac OS X, where prerelease versions are covered under non-disclosure but you can talk about publicly released versions all you want.
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
Now I'm really confused. So you're saying that developers can talk about their stuff because it's theirs, but they can't talk about their stuff because it implies talking about Apple's stuff?
Me head hurt.
Re:So you still cant bitch about being rejected? (Score:5, Informative)
Is that really so hard to understand?
Any piece of code that elucidates Cocoa Touch/iPhone OS functionality couldn't be disclosed, because Cocoa Touch/iPhone OS was under the FNDA. It may be the developers' code, but it can speak volumes about the structure of the iPhone SDK.
Now, the only code you can't distribute is code that uses new features in prerelease versions of the OS/SDK.
Parent
Re:So you still cant bitch about being rejected? (Score:5, Interesting)
Yes.
You write code. You can talk about that code. But if that code is based on somebody else's code, and that somebody else has that code under NDA, and your code implies information about their code, then you have to keep it under wraps.
More concretely, Apple's NDA cannot prevent you from discussing your own code. But if your code contains information about the iPhone code, you can't discuss that.
Now that things are being lifted, you can discuss the iPhone code and therefore your own code which relies on it. The only remaining restriction is that you can't talk about iPhone code which isn't public yet, and by implication any of your own code which relies on the non-public changes.
So this change covers only their prerelease software, and by extension any of your software which contains information about their prerelease software. But it doesn't, and can't, cover your own prerelease software by itself.
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
...And? I knew what he was referring to. His implied connection was wrong, as I discussed.
Re:So you still cant bitch about being rejected? (Score:4, Informative)
f I read this right, does that mean developers still can't publicly bitch about their apps being rejected from the store?
You have been reading an announcement about a change in the NDA. Whatever is in that announcement has no legal value whatsoever. Trying to search for a deep meaning in each word of this announcement is completely pointless. If you have a changed NDA in your hands, then whatever that changed NDA says is the new rules.
Also note that Apple _always_ puts all its own unreleased software under NDA. Therefore XCode 3.1 (which was and is needed for iPhone development) was under NDA until it was released a few weeks ago. So "unreleased software and features will remain under NDA until they are released" is exactly what Apple has always said for many years, iPhone or no iPhone.
Parent
You misunderstand "release", iPhone OS versions (Score:3, Informative)
If I read this right, does that mean developers still can't publicly bitch about their apps being rejected from the store?
"released software" means APPLE released software. As in, you can talk about API versions that are out in public but not versions that are still developer preview only.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
While the wording is a bit ambiguous, and I don't know what it means for bitching about rejections, I have a pretty good feeling that what they're talking about when they say "software" is really Apple software, i.e. the stuff that makes up the iPhone SDK, not the applications that you are developing. In other words, once this new agreement is in effect, we should be able to freely dis
Developer's app? (Score:2)
Here's hoping we'll see a developer's app that runs entirely on an iPhone / iPod Touch.
You always could (Score:3, Informative)
How about open source? Can we build FOSS for the thing now?
There are already a number of iPhone projects on Google Code that were there before. It was just a question before if you wanted to risk you developer status and App Store distribution ability to add to them... now that's lifted iPhone OSS should be more abundant.
Too little too late. (Score:4, Insightful)
I've put my order in for a G1 and I'll be writing applications for that platform from now on. I spent far too long at the mercy of another iron fisted company [microsoft.com] to want to go back to that kind of situation.
Oh the benevolent merciful... (Score:2, Funny)
Apple is so great, and innovative, and fantastic. They make the best, most dependable enterprise products, and they treat their developers like gods. I wish Apple controlled the entire computer industry. It would be beautiful , intuitive, and in a word, "perfect."
Antitrust, regulations, Apple is full of shyt (Score:4, Insightful)
When are people going to start bitching about Apple providing an email application in their phone, and then locking others out (as was discussed here earlier).
This is > Microsoft Antitrust (think internet exploder), ESPECIALLY with all the people screaming iphone iphone iphone (think, market penetration).
Not intended as a troll, but I have to wonder, when Apple can INTENTIONALLY lock vendors out of providing applications for their phone (and Apple is the OS and hardware provider here, make no mistake about it, NOT AT&T), but Microsoft gets raked over the coals about bundling internet exploder?
What the fuck? Seriously, what the FUCK?
No IPhone or Apple fan (although I do have a Mac), just gotta wonder, WTF is Jobs thinking?
--Toll_Free
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Apple always manages to piss me off because, in my opinion anyway, they are worse then Microsoft when it comes to this type of thing, furthermore I don't understand how Apple can make one mistake after another and still have an angelic godly image that would otherwise instantly give Microsoft an assload of bad P.R.
I just don't understand people...
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Apple's bundling is not nearly as prohibitive to competition as Microsoft's bundling was. You can develop apps for Symbian
Re:Antitrust, regulations, Apple is full of shyt (Score:5, Insightful)
No it's not. Microsoft was ready to kill entire pc manufacturers over the IE/Netscape issue, and they more than had the power to do so.
No independent developer -has- to release on the iPhone.
Seriously, people HATE Apple for completely irrational reasons and back them up with poorly constructed arguments. At least the Microsoft hate has -legal backing- behind it.
Parent
Sorry, don't agree at all (Score:3, Insightful)
Disclaimer, I have an iMac, a 20gb iPod (3rd gen), and now a Touch. I also am working with the SDK.
Apple is just as bad if not worse, their entire cover is "lack of market share" but if your in their market share your just screwed. I don't care, I want an alternative to Mail. Sorry but there are lots of features it does not have on the Touch UNLESS I buy ME. Sorry, but locking out competing applications is anti-competitive. Especially when they offer features they don't and only don't offer because the
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I think Apple trusts to their fanatics and fans while doing such absurd things. Such people also has potential to lead them in wrong direction as we have seen in Amelio times.
They made Microsoft Windows Mobile look as "freedom" and people started to defend Symbian on all platforms. Usually Symbian users will buy the device, enhance it to a point that nobody will understand how their phone can boot and bitch about it on Web.
That is a real achievement.To repeat: Windows Mobile looks "open" with "freedom" comp
same ol, same ol (Score:5, Interesting)
We mac developers were led to believe that by WWDC, we'd have an SDK with a lifted NDA. Nope. Didn't happen.
We mac developers were led to believe that by July 11 when the iPhone 3G was released, we'd have an SDK with a lifted NDA. Nope. Didn't happen.
Now they tell us that the NDA will be lifted at some point in the near future. What's changed?
Re:same ol, same ol (Score:5, Insightful)
Android.
Parent
Re:same ol, same ol (Score:4, Interesting)
Also Symbian fixing their only issue. The closed source kernel. It was taken way more seriously than some people in Cupertino expected. No industry fight happened too.
Funny is the Android release and Symbian going open source is also happening thanks to iPhone. Nobody can say Apple doesn't change things. I could never imagine Nokia and their biggest rivals agreeing to make Symbian open source. Even Flash 3 lite release which is rumoured to be free download for end user is Adobe's iPhone and Silverlight reaction. They asked millions of dollars from manufacturers before.
If Apple just allowed actual competition in iPhone itself without lame excuses like security and battery life?
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
The OP has too many TLAS in his SP. GP says WTF?
Re:Expect even more non-app store apps (Score:5, Insightful)
Why would this affect jailbreakers? Why would they have ever agreed to an Apple NDA?
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
Yes, because in order to compile their programs, one of the tools they have to use is apples IPhone SDK that you get from joining the dev program. In order to join it, you have to agree to the NDA.
Rather than risk a future legal battle that would cripple jailbreak development, they wisely played by the rules it looks like.
Re: (Score:2)
So how did they build all those jailbreak apps in the months before Apple released the official SDK?
Re:Expect even more non-app store apps (Score:5, Informative)
Saurik explains alot of it here [saurik.com].
They developed using Apple's open-source stuff via darwin-gcc, if I understand correctly. You just never got any of the really cool class headers required to use the neater functions of the IPhone.
In order to make the most with the 2.x firmware, you needed to get the SDK. Once you got it, you agreed to the NDA.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Argh.
Should read
Saurik and other jailbroken-iphone devs
Click here [saurik.com] if you want to get a see what is needed to compile code developed outside of Apple's X-Code.
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah, the anonymous coward must travel in different circles than I do... I've been to almost all of my friends' weddings over the last few years. There's really only one of us not married or engaged, and almost all of us have at least one baby. And yes, we're all in our early 30s.
Re: (Score:2)
Yes, it's exactly like slavery. Thanks for such a useful analogy.
Re: (Score:2)
Now that this part of the NDA has been dropped, it seems to me that developing for iPhone is no better or worse than developing for any other closed-source platform--Windows, Palm, etc. Maybe not ideal, but not that bad.