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Workplace BlackBerry Use May Spur Lawsuits
Posted by
samzenpus
on Wed Jul 09, 2008 09:23 PM
from the I've-worked-80-hours-this-week dept.
from the I've-worked-80-hours-this-week dept.
An anonymous reader writes "From an article on cnbc.com: 'As employers hand out electronic devices to their employees at a greater pace, there are growing concerns that workers eligible for overtime pay, known as non-exempt employees, could begin suing their employers for overtime hours earned while tapping on their devices during after-work hours. As a result, lawyers are advising their corporate clients to update their policies and handbooks related to BlackBerry use and reconsider who gets a device.'"
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Submission: Workplace BlackBerry Use May Spur Lawsuits by Anonymous Coward
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Blackberries establish your dominance! (Score:3, Funny)
It clearly separates you from the sheeple and establish your dominance over the herd. It establishes that you're a go-getter, instead of one of those hippies with an iphone.
And everyone knows, blackberries make assholes more versatile [theonion.com].
Turned it down (Score:5, Interesting)
In 2003-2004 at my previous employer the company rolled out Blackberries to management and "key" personnel. Being responsible for a relatively large part of the infrastructure at this joint, I also got one.
One day I arrived at work and found the messaging group folks had delivered the BBs to some of the people in my area, and there was a box in my desk as well, with a little booklet (the must have cost a fortune to print, it was that well done) with usage policy (of course), instructions and steps for setting it up. The younger kids were besides themselves and already setting up the sync cradles and sending messages to each other. I picked up the phone and called the project manager, who was a friend of mine. I asked him to send one of his people to pick the box up.
"But everyone's getting one."
"I don't care, I don't want it."
"You are on Tier 1 and you're supposed to be on call..."
"I am. I have a cell phone, and if the IPC melts down at 3 AM, someone can call me."
"But this lets you check your email!"
"That's exactly why I don't want it"
A few days of back and forth politik ensued, and eventually my boss relented and let me be. Note that this was the time when the devices could not make phone calls - I hear they can now. Oh joy.
I figured that once I had that thing I'd never be able to get away from it, even on vacation. And that's exactly what happened to everyone else. People won't think twice about sending you an email for stupid little things at 10:00 PM, because they're working and figure everyone else should be as well. But making a phone call is very different, and most people won't do it unless it's something really important. People think it's no big deal because it's just a message. Bullshit.
If the data center is on fire, sure I want to know, no matter what time it is. But I don't want to hear little pings and murmurs from a PDA next to my bed because some VP couldn't find a file for tomorrow's presentation, or a fscking file server is down and Julie in accounting can't get to it. All that can wait until the morning.
If I had taken the thing and ended up in that 24/7/365 situation I don't think I'd sue my employer, but I would have probably ended up leaving a lot sooner than I did. Probably even if I were eligible for overtime. A case of "they ain't paying me enough for this crap" if I ever saw one.
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Re:Turned it down (Score:5, Insightful)
I figured that once I had that thing I'd never be able to get away from it, even on vacation. And that's exactly what happened to everyone else. People won't think twice about sending you an email for stupid little things at 10:00 PM, because they're working and figure everyone else should be as well. But making a phone call is very different, and most people won't do it unless it's something really important. People think it's no big deal because it's just a message. Bullshit.
See, I never used mine that way when I had it. My policy was if it was really important, you gave me a call. Emails were only checked maybe twice a day on the weekends and if it wasn't important (which it hardly ever was) it would wait until Monday.
Berries are one of those tools that are very good when used appropriately and hazardous to your well-being if used improperly. Most people use them improperly. I feel the exact same way about remote access tools. As an IT guy, I think they're great. I can log in, do the two second task I have to, and then I'm done. Regular employees don't like it because it means that the big pile of work on their desks feels like it's staring at them through the intertubes, demanding their attention. "I don't want to be able to work from home, I don't even want to know I'm able to do so!" some people have pleaded with me. I can understand.
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Re:Turned it down (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm the same way. I give notice to my colleagues of when I'm going on vacation, and I make it clear to them that for the duration of my vacation, I will NOT have my Blackberry with me. To make the point doubly clear, on my last day before vacation, I will point out that the Blackberry is in its cradle at the end of the day, and not on my person.
I am part of an on-call rotation. I will answer the phone if it rings while I'm not on-call, but I do not check my e-mail unless I hear it buzzing incessantly (I leave it on vibrate) for an inordinate amount of time, which means that a lot of messages are coming in and something is probably seriously broken and I'll be called anyway. If I am on-call, I check the subjects of messages but will only open them if they appear to be something about which I need to be concerned. Other than that, it goes back in the holster.
The Blackberry has its use. Its use is not to enslave me. Considering that the employer recently took actions in my favor to try to ensure that I will not leave in the near future, I suspect they know that pushing me on this (if they were so inclined) would not improve their position.
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Re:Turned it down (Score:5, Funny)
Anyone else find it ironic that someone who complains about people bugging him at all hours of the night for work, has his twitter info in his sig?
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Re: (Score:3, Funny)
So, does that make him a twit?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I accepted the BB when they were given out and I only configured one particular e-mail alias to send mail to it - the one used by our system monitoring software. So I am notified when critical infrastructure goes down and can even ssh from the BB to our systems if needed but I don't read my normal work
Re:Turned it down (Score:4, Insightful)
You must be new here - you're much too normal to be a real /.er.
One young whippersnapper made the comment that you must be an ornery old-time that didn't want to learn new technology. He may be joking, but he's probably a complete ageist, as you know your industry is full of them.
While I appreciate and enjoy the incredible technology that has made the BB possible, these kids need to know there was a good life before BBs and cell phones and 24/7/365 connectivity. I don't want any of it to go away, but all the tech has one common trait - a switch that allows the user to turn them off. And if they don't, take out the damn battery.
Life can be so quiet.......
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Just mute the volume, that's what I do for my cell (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Turned it down (Score:5, Insightful)
Well you don't have to look at it.
I've carried a work BB for a few years now and I don't think it's been a negative thing at all. No one expects me to be checking email at the weekend so they still have to phone if it's urgent. If I'm on vacation the BB loses it's battery and goes in a drawer. However, if I want to check my morning meeting schedule before going to bed it takes 30 seconds (rather than having to fire up the VPN) and if I do get a call at some ungodly hour I can quickly check the mail trail to see what's been going on. I find it very convenient to be able to get to my work email quickly when I choose to, I don't feel under any pressure to do so more than I would do anyway.
One thing I'm very clear about is that I still carry a personal phone. That way, when I'm not on company time I can choose whether to take the BB or not. Clear separation of work and home life is important.
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Re:Turned it down (Score:4, Insightful)
At the end of the day, it boils down to the lifestyle that you choose to have, I guess. Me, I cannot imagine my work life without my Blackberry.
That said, it is a very conscious choice that I made. I am a management consultant (cue the Douglas Adams jokes), and if something needs to be done at 2 AM on a Saturday night while on vacation, I do it. Hell, my manager is on vacation in the Virgin Islands this week and I get emails from him at 5 AM asking for updates.
To me, this is perfectly acceptable because I chose this lifestyle knowing full well the ramifications. I had a nice 9-5 corporate job, but at the end of the day, it was slow, work was challenging but not trying and there was a ton of mediocrity around. These days, I've a job where I fly out every week, work 60 hours on a good week and 80+ on a bad one, and it is strictly up or out. Given my lifestyle and the amount of travel I do, my Blackberry is my lifeline.
And just to your point, at least in my friends circle, receiving phone calls at 10 PM, 12 AM or even 4 AM is not out of the ordinary (and we are not talking about IT, either - a lot of them are in consulting or finance). It is just part of the lifestyle that we chose, and to us, it is quite normal.
That said, there are also times when folks decide to go incommunicado because they can't take it. That's fine, too. But I guess my point is that just because you can receive an email in the middle of the night does not mean you should reply to it. Secondly, you can always turn it on Silent - which is what I do if I do not want to be interrupted (important presentation, dinner date etc).
And oh some level, I find it strange when someone does not want a Blackberry. My only phone is my Blackberry, and to me, it is a one-stop solution. My calendar, my address book, my email, IM and everything else is all rolled into one. I can travel wherever I want, and as long as I have my Blackberry, I am quite content.
And to the point about compensation for overtime - while I do make a decent amount of money, I also put in enough of an effort in it. I do my job because I enjoy doing it, and folks that signed up for something knowing full well the outcome, and seek compensation later, should perhaps look for a different career path.
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Re:Turned it down (Score:5, Informative)
I'm not going to let my blackberry wake me up for every little email thrown out.
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Re:Turned it down (Score:5, Insightful)
They don't PAY me for 24/7 support,
Then turn off the Blackberry. It DOES have an off switch, right??
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Re:Turned it down (Score:5, Informative)
If the file server is that important, they should have 24/7 staff on-site to keep it running.
You can't complain about the prohibitive cost of having a professional IT staff available all hours and then turn around and say what a financial disaster it would be if they weren't there.
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Re:Turned it down (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Turned it down (Score:5, Insightful)
Look, if you like being the hero and accepting more responsibility with no increase in compensation, feel free. If I need to be on call 24/7 to personally reboot computers, it will be reflected in my paycheck and scheduled in a professional manner so I know which periods I need to be available. Don't just hand out Blackberries and act like you're giving employees a treat by allowing them to instantly respond to any issues that arise any time of day or night.
If you need 24/7 support, then you pay for it. If 24/7 support is necessary for your company to be efficient, then pay for it. If you call a plumber at 3am, it will cost you a small fortune. But if the option is waiting until 9am when the plumber is cheaper and having the entire building flooded and all your employees sent home, then I guess the cost is worth it. Why do you think IT staff should behave less professionally than the average plumber?
If you expect to be treated like a professional, you have to act like one, and part of acting like one is negotiating responsibilities and compensation.
If someone needs me at 3am to accomplish a critical task, it's important enough for them to pick up the phone and call me and personally explain why I need to get out of bed and do this task right at this moment. I guaran-fucking-tee you that's the same answer your CEO would give to this question. And when we're done with the 3am task, he and I are both going to sit you down and ask why your poor planning required us to get out of bed at 3am to save your ass.
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Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
It's not about being lazy. I'm all for resuscitating a dead server, but I WANT TO BE PAID FOR IT.
I can't understand what's so difficult to understand about this concept??? If I do work, if I answer emails, if I field phone calls at 3am, if I get text messages from my server that I'm obligated to read, I AM ENTITLED FOR COMPENSATION for my time. I don't see the problem here.
The whole reason this discussion started is because some VP or CEO is too cheap to pay for extra time (*1.5 in some cases) in order to s
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Simple job? It might not be rocket science, but if the network goes down half the company will be sitting there twiddling their thumbs. I'd say that maintaining the IT infrastructure is a rather vital and critical job, and being well paid reflects the difficulty of keeping such an important and complex system running well.
That counts for any complex infrastructure position - we had planned maintenance on our building's electricity panel ye
no way (Score:3, Insightful)
If they fire me I will tell the boss, "I was looking for a job when I found this one".
Re:no way (Score:4, Funny)
That's kinda like telling someone you know Martial Arts after they've just broken your nose.
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Re:Gotta agree with that. (Score:5, Interesting)
And since I spend NO time after work sending any work emails ... someone out there is spending an awful lot of time to make up for my slacking.
Yeah, I know that person. I work for them...
Maybe there's a generational gap here, but as a 20-something just entering the working world, I've found it striking how those 20-30 years older than myself have come to see email as the Infallible Silver Bullet of instant office communication. Email isn't always reliable, or instant, or even secure, yet it's increasingly treated that way.
For example, I receive one-liner emails from someone sitting at a computer in an office less than 30 feet from mine. Just walk over and ask your question, you know where I am. Well, okay, so I'm not always at the computer- in which case I'll get a followup email (or two) within 10 minutes asking why I haven't replied to the first message. We have numerous people who use email as an instant message service, shooting single sentence messages back and forth all day long. Our workstations even come with an IM client installed, and I've tried to instruct people to use it, but nobody does. They'd rather make a show out of spending at least an hour or two every day "doing email", as it's called around the office.
I'm convinced that the use of Blackberries will only make the problem worse. Email is quickly becomming the text messaging of the workplace, something it was never designed nor intended for. God help me if the boss ever gets a Blackberry, and figures out how to use it...
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Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Too many in the US have this "gimmie something" attitude, not the attitude of "how I can be a better worker", or "how I can enhance my value to the company".
You must have to have a pretty empty life for those things to be the most important issues in it.
Obviously given to the wrong employees (Score:5, Insightful)
Blackberries are imho meant for those people who for whatever reason can't stop working. Business owners, sales people working on commission only, that idea. And of course that are exactly the people for whom working hours don't count. I'm one of them, even though I don't have nor want a blackberry. If people need to reach me so urgently they can use the phone.
This also makes me wonder, what is a blackberry doing in the hands of employees with fixed working hours? Why are they given one by the company in the first place? This are generally the lower ranked people (now I don't know US labour laws very much) - they have fixed working hours obviously, and are supposed to do (and finish) their work within those hours. I can't think of any reason why they would possibly need one such devices. They are at work, then work, and then will have a computer at hand. If it is the kind of employee that is supposed to run around all the time, e-mail won't be of much interest for them either.
No matter what I think this is mostly a story about the inappropriate use of a technology. The enormous urge of being "ahead of the pack" when it comes to adapting new tech. It is high tech, it is new, "everybody" uses it, etc. That kind of thinking. It sounds like a disconnect between the ideas of the top management and the actual tasks of the workers.
Add to that the idea that all employees want to be important, and having a blackberry these days is for sure equivalent to being important (until recently it were only the high-fliers that would have a need for it and could afford one), so everybody will happily accept a blackberry without thinking about whether they really need one. And then those lower ranked employees also get addicted, forget that they have working hours, start working overtime, and poof, lawsuit!
I truly hope the employees lose in this case, as I consider it unasked for overtime. Completely voluntary overtime. Unless the employers gave the blackberry with the message "now you are reachable at all times", in which case the employer deserves to lose - if only for sheer stupidity.
Re:Obviously given to the wrong employees (Score:4, Insightful)
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Let's not forget corporate laptops... (Score:5, Insightful)
They've been issued for far longer than Blackberries and haven't spurned lawsuits so far.
Basically, it's not a question of the technology: if you have hourly employees working unreported time, you're asking for trouble. The labor laws are fairly clear in this matter. Whether it's on a Blackberry, laptop, or otherwise is beside the point.
But let's not forget that employers can simply reclassify their hourly employees as salaried and get as much unpaid overtime as they want. And that's perfectly legal, Blackberry or not. This question is more a matter of your employer's semantic classification of your job than whether or not you get paid for your overtime.
Re:Let's not forget corporate laptops... (Score:4, Informative)
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Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I'd like to see less government involvement in the workplace, and just let the employee and employer agree on work conditions and rules and expectations. Don't like the policies? Go get another job. It's that easy, really.
It's not really that simple. It might work in the case of a few bad companies, but what if all companies adopt the same work conditions? That is the thing about pure capitalism, that companies can become too greedy at the expense of human beings, so there needs to be a balance of regulations that protect the factors that are not purely financial (human health, environmental, safety, non-discrimination, etc). This happened a lot in the industrial revolution before labor laws and still happens in other pa
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I'd like to see one of those stony heart libertarians get really fucked-up in the arse to the hilt by one of those wall-to-wall lawyered mega croporations and lose everything down to the last fermion of his soul.
Then we'll see if he's still against "government involvement" in life...
Have you tried ... (Score:5, Insightful)
On a side note, I had a previous employer offer me a Blackberry as an enticement to stay when I gave my notice to leave. Needless to say my decision remained the same.
I own a Blackberry (my own, I'm self employed and also an ISV of a Blackberry app) and the biggest complaint I have about them is many companies hand them out as status symbols and not to the people who could really make good use of them.
Re:Have you tried ... (Score:5, Insightful)
I own a Blackberry (my own, I'm self employed and also an ISV of a Blackberry app) and the biggest complaint I have about them is many companies hand them out as status symbols and not to the people who could really make good use of them.
My biggest complaint is that people keep fiddling with them in meetings. When people call me over for help on something and then take a five minute personal call, I leave. "Where did you go?" Back somewhere productive. Bad enough when we're talking about going to someone's desk, it's absolutely infuriating when there's a big meeting and everyone is on the berries. New rule: your berry gets turned off and goes in the basket. Your people know the room you're in; if something important happens, you will be paged.
Personally, I think it's incredibly rude to let a phone call interrupt a conversation. It's one thing if it's someone's boss calling, nothing can be done about that, same as if he pokes his head in the door. But anything less than that, ask if it's important, if not, call them back! Big pet peeve.
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Etiquette guide (Score:3, Informative)
I remember reading an etiquette guide where the rule of thumb was 'proximity'.
So if you are talking to someone face to face and you get a phone call/pager/email/IM, then you ignore those and focus on the face to face conversation because that person is closer.
Or if you are on phone call, and you get a pager/email/IM, then the caller is 'closer' to you (since you are engaged in a real-time voice conversation) and you would ignore the others including the IM (which is real-time, but less 'close' since it's no
It's their choice (Score:3, Interesting)
I've got a friend who have been given one. In my opinion it's both good and bad. The good side is that if you must send an E-mail, you can, and you don't have to stop your leisure and go home or go to workplace. The bad side is that more people expect you to reply quickly. But if you don't start replying quickly, few get such expectation. So my friend end up not attending to that new gadget when peaceful moments are more desired (which is most of the time).
At the end of the day, it's just a tool. They give it to you, it's their right. You might watch for message in it every second you're not sleeping, or you might just turn it off unless somebody makes you a phone call and you decide it is urgent enough, it's your choice. They can fire you, but they can always do so anyway.
Sure (Score:4, Interesting)
You have to pay for people to work. What a novel concept.
I agree! (Score:5, Funny)
Now, I do think it provides some leeway - I have some employees who I allow somewhat flexible hours and for that they trade some amount of availiblity.
Others, I just like to irritate by sending emails a 4:30AM.
Oh, wait, my master is buzzing...
How hard is it to ignore them? (Score:3, Insightful)
It's really not that hard to ignore them. I've had one for about a year (the 8830). I tune out the blinking red light when I'm not working, or if it is annoying me I turn the phone upside down so I cannot see it.
I find it very useful when I'm on site and I can keep up a bit more, whereas otherwise I'd be a day or two behind on emails.
Non-exempt is a great thing. (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm currently a IT professional that is actually paid overtime for > 40 hours of work per week. Guess what - I don't have a blackberry.
If I want to earn more money, the next pay grade is exempt and (shocking) includes a blackberry.
It's like looking at crackpipe and trying to talk yourself into it. :\
Why use a blackberry when you can txt? (Score:3, Interesting)
If something is down, you've got 140 characters or so to tell me about it. If it takes more than that, it's either not serious enough to make me care about, or it's serious enough for you to call me about.
Either way I'm fine with my LG 10000 Voyager, and personal laptop to remote in when travelling if needed beyond that.
They day I have a blackberry is they day I've sold my soul (and/or am making more ... heh).
Who needs a Blackberry... (Score:5, Funny)
Blackberry != "the problem" (Score:5, Insightful)
Improper handling of "exempt" employee status is probably the most frequently screwed up HR liability in the corporate world because half of managers "heard somewhere" at one point that if you're on salary you're exempt. Wrong. The same people fabricated "flex time" which has no basis in law in the state of California (maybe in other places).
The level of ignorance in upper management with regard to employees rights is mind-numbing.
As an Exchange consultant... (Score:4, Informative)
Boundaries (Score:4, Insightful)
If you make that argument, you have already lost. It means you have given your boss the authority to rearrange your life for greater productivity; you're just giving advice on the best way to do it. To establish boundaries, you should let them make the first move. Just don't respond to emails or calls outside of working hours. If they want you to be available for work during certain hours, they need to negotiate those hours and convince you -- preferably with arguments you can take to the bank.
Lawyers trying to make a buck (Score:5, Insightful)
The lawyers are stirring the pot. Nothing else to see, move along. These are not the lawsuits you are looking for.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
While I agree with you in some respects -- in fact, a lot of folks are saying the current economic downturn is WORSE than normal because people are being expected to keep up with so much more in terms of insurance and other safety nets compared to previous recessions -- just because a subsection can't handle the control doesn't mean everyone should give it up.
I don't use a blackberry (because I'm still, admittedly, on my parents' plan and nobody involved wants to pay the extra per-line-per-month data charge
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Then DON'T be!!
You don't have to be...I've worked W2, and was hourly, and got OT pay. You can too..just ask for it, or go work where they will let you.
Personally...I'll never work for free ever again. Salaried pay is a rip-off. I don't mind wokring OT, going above and beyond when it is needed, but, I will not do it for free. If you get paid hourly...they will think twice about asking to you to work OT; only when they really need it. Over 40 hours a week should not be 'ex
Depends on the salary (Score:5, Insightful)
Personally...I'll never work for free ever again. Salaried pay is a rip-off.
That depends entirely on the salary. In many cases you are quite correct but not always. Once you climb up towards management, hourly pay generally is no longer an option. Plus in some professions (ex. doctors or investment bankers) hourly pay is simply not going to be an option on the table. Fortunately the pay and bonuses (should) make up for it so long as you don't mind the hours. Whether the hours vs. pay trade-off is worth it is an exercise left for the reader.
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Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm with you on this. I left the company I used to work for partly because they abused the 40-hour, exempt-employee workweek. Sometimes, we would spend 14-16 hours on-site without breaks, and I simply got sick of working hours of 2 weeks and getting paid for one.
Then I came back as a part-time W2 employee, only to be met with "Well, we have this approval process for overtime."
Fine by me.
The whole "exempt" employee thing is a sham -- I'm not sure how companies can legally declare non-managerial employees (s
Re:Now is about the time... (Score:5, Insightful)
Over 40 hours a week should not be 'expected', it should only be required for emergencies and last minute pushes on big deadlines
Please understand that emergencies and last minute pushes on big deadlines are to be expected at all times. No overtime means no overtime. If you want to do a good job at leading a team, make it a rule without exceptions.
As an employer, don't pay for overtime, don't ask for overtime and don't allow overtime. It will ruin quality and cost you more.
I used to work at one of the big consulting firms and the following pattern was almost a rule:
1. not finished, stay late
2. come in late or unrested
3. be less productive, deliver poor quality
4. not finished after staying late
If you see that pattern, stop it at once and follow these simple rules:
1. everybody is on time each day
2. no working after 6
3. max 40 hours a week
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Re: (Score:3, Informative)