Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments
Search

News for nerds, stuff that matters

Slashdot Log In

Log In

Create Account  |  Retrieve Password

More iPod Killers Introduced for the Holiday

Posted by CmdrTaco on Sun Oct 31, 2004 09:55 AM
from the stuff-to-lust-after dept.
Portables Media Music Hardware
An anonymous reader writes "MP3newswire.net has just released part III and part IV of their iPod Killers for Xmas list. Standouts are a $1200 24K gold-plated player from Jens of Sweeden, a 137 Gig unit called the Xclef, Sony's first true MP3 player, and iRiver's MPEG-4 video jukebox. If you missed them, here are parts I and II."
+ -
story
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.

More iPod Killers Introduced for the Holiday 50 Comments More /

 Full
 Abbreviated
 Hidden
More
Loading... please wait.

  • Kill the killer (Score:5, Insightful)

    by pedestrian crossing (802349) on Sunday October 31 2004, @09:58AM (#10678697) Homepage Journal
    Can we do away with the "iPod Killer" thing, it's old. Nothing is going to "kill" the iPod, it has establised itself as the standard for better or worse. It's like the Walkman. In fact, the iPod is the Walkman killer. Nothing that comes out in the short term is going to be an iPod killer.
    • Well the ipod is very expensive. Eventually a device will come out for about $100 that can store enough gigabyte of music to make it worthwhile carrying around.

      • But just like with the walkman and the discman, there will be cheaper players, there will be better players, but it will still be the standard that everything is measured by, and that sells consistently well.
        • Apple has never had to deal with competition like that before. They manage to keep their computers priced much higher than PCs, because they held a niche market. While it might be nice to think that Apple would drop their price to $50; I don't have that much faith in Apple's ability to compete.

          • Re:Kill the killer (Score:5, Informative)

            by GFLPraxis (745118) on Sunday October 31 2004, @10:50AM (#10679025) Homepage Journal
            What bugged me most about the iPod is the not inconsiderable additional outlay I would have to make on cables, adaptors, etc.

            What the heck are you talking about? The iPod comes with the firewire cable, USB 2.0 cable, AC adpter, and headphones. You keep the headphones on your ears, and use either firewire or USB for connecting to the computer. That's IT. What not inconsiderable outlay on cables and adapters are you talking about? Methinks you know very little about iPods.

            In my mind at least, the iPOd was dead.

            See above. There is nothing wrong with the iPod. You walk over to the computer and plug in the firewire cable.

            Over the last two months, I have picked up two Creative Nomad Muvo TX FM players - they are only 256 MB each - I actually like that because it gives me a constant chance to decide my daily playlist on my computer

            You can decide your playlist on the iPod as well, except you wouldn't have to re-upload every day ;)

            Furthermore, The player itself converts effortlessly into a USB drive for those urgent file copy needs. Also, it plays FM, looks slick, has a single-button interface and the wife loves it - two players for $160 total.

            Single button interface? See click wheel.

            Finally, WMP 10 killed my constant usage of iTunes as well mainly because of the Sync List feature.

            Windows Media Player 10. Over iTunes. *snicker*

            The news that Apple is willing to turn off features in its iTunes, a la 4.7, is not surprising

            What are you talking about? iTunes 4.7 adds Photo orginization for the iPod Photo.

            and I, for one, am glad I do not have an iPod.

            So am I. You obviously don't know enough about iPods to use one, no matter how simple the interface. Sorry for being a bit rude, but this post was so know-it-all and anti-iPod that I got annoyed.

    • Flash prices (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Mistlefoot (636417) on Sunday October 31 2004, @10:08AM (#10678750)
      When flash eventually becomes cheap enough that I can put my music collection on it I'll consider an alternative. Removing the harddrive from the equation will offer a bit more durability and long term health.

      I really don't see any advantage to buying something other then a 'proven' iPod when all other comparable products will cost the same price.

      Where's the advantage?

    • Re:Kill the killer (Score:2, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      The iPod and the iTMS have entrenched themselves as the defacto standard of portable music (and music store). I go to The University of Texas at Austin and the campus is saturated with iPods. My estimate is that 80-90% of students with an MP3 player carry an iPod. You can tell because of the headphones... its becoming sort of a status symbol (like the Lance Armstrong - Livestrong wrist bands).

      Other companies *wish* they had an iPod killer because they want a chunk of the media player pie. However, it'
      • Odd.. must be a US thing.

        I've only met one ipod user, and he got it cheap with a powerbook on educational discount.

        Most other people have the standard 128MB MP3 'sticks' as they're a lot more convenient/cheaper/durable.

        The best one price-wise (which it pretty much the only thing that matters with thise stuff.. it's an MP3 player, it plays MP3s) seems to be the Thompson, at half the cost of the ipod.

        Convenience wise though you'll have to work hard to beat minidisk. Having to plug your player into a PC j

    • Re:Kill the killer (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Peyna (14792) on Sunday October 31 2004, @10:10AM (#10678766) Homepage
      Nothing that costs 4x as much as the iPod will lead to its demise, but if someone made a very comparable product that cost 1/2 as much, then you might have some good competition at least. All that it would really do is serve to bring the price of the units down, which would be the greatest thing for all of us.

      • Archos was the competition and might be again. (Score:5, Informative)

        by Nomihn0 (739701) on Sunday October 31 2004, @11:52AM (#10679357)
        What you are unknowingly referring to are the Archos MP3 hard drive based players. When the iPod 20 came out, I bought an Archos Jukebox 20 Recorder for exactly half the price. Admittedly, it was a tad larger than the Apple which also gets points for style, but since when did geeks begin caring about carrying around the equivalent of e-jewelry? At the time, it was a more than viable alternative. It didn't hurt that the crazies over at Rockbox Firmware [rockbox.haxx.se] (down right now) rewrote the firmware for Archos systems. You can now develop your own apps for the system as well as enjoy total customization of the interface. They've added a "video" extension, a text file reader, and multilingual support, among other things. Now, with the release of the new 20 gb Archos player, even smaller than the iPod and the around the same size as the iPod mini (2.9" x 2.3" x .7") albeit with a larger screen (2"), I am beginning to believe that a new era of iPod competition is being reigned in.

        • Re:Archos was the competition and might be again. (Score:5, Insightful)

          by jht (5006) on Sunday October 31 2004, @12:57PM (#10679709) Homepage Journal
          That's sweet and all, but far from an iPod killer - or even much of a competitor, for that matter.

          Geeks may love the Archos - but remember how everybody on Slashdot panned the iPod when it came out? Well, the iPod became a huge hit, and it wasn't because geeks loved it. It was because normal folks (the ones who are 99%+ of the market) saw the ads for it, saw the product, and said "I'll take one, please".

          In other words, the market doesn't care if you can write software for the Archos, or load custom firmware, or change the skins. They don't give a flying fig if it uses MP3, AAC, WMA, or OGG as the standard format. They want their digital music player to work. Period. And by "work", I mean they want the sound to be good, the device to be simple and attractive, and they want the computer software that drives the library to be simple and capable. And until someone hits all those points better than Apple does, iPod will dominate the market.

            • Re:iPod already killed for me (Score:5, Informative)

              by jacobdp (698004) on Sunday October 31 2004, @06:03PM (#10681377)
              Another was free use of my own files. The iPod, according to the Apple Store, had two modes, which I (not they) call the Free Mode and the Big Brother Mode. The Free Mode, they proudly proclaim, lets you use it as a portable USB drive, plugging in to any computer and doing anything you like with any of your files. Anything, that is, except actually PLAY THEM. That's disabled in Free Mode. This media player won't play any media if you loaded it in Free Mode.

              If you actually want to use the media files you load, you have to use Big Brother Mode, using a special loader app that doubles as a storefront for exactly one store: Apple's own. Your device has to be registered with this app and there are all sorts of arcane rules about how many units of this can be registered with that on which computer and how to properly disable one before you can move to another, etc. Bah!

              Bullshit. You connect your iPod to the computer and it appears as a standard USB (or Firewire) hard drive, working seamlessly under any OS. Your music is stored in a hidden directory (standard Fat32 "hidden" directory, nothing weird there; it's named "iPod_Control"). File formats natively supported include standard MP3, standard AAC (MP4), AIFF, and WAV. The iPod also knows how to go around Apple's copy protection code, but said copy protection is NOT REQUIRED.

              There's a binary database that the metadata is stored in. Apple's iTunes knows how to access this DB, as do several other programs like ephPod [ephpod.com], GNUpod [gnu.org] (which I personally have used without any problems whatsoever), etc.

              The arcane restrictions and "registration" of which you speak apply ONLY to Apple's "iTunes Music Store", an integrated but OPTIONAL part of the iTunes program (which you don't even have to use). They have nothing to do with music that you obtained elsewhere, i.e. from CD or an MP3 that you already have on your computer. Even if you do buy music from Apple, the restrictions on how many computers you can transfer the music to do NOT apply to the iPod.

              Standard USB or 1394 interface. Standard filesystem. Standard audio codecs. Widely-supported metadata handling (GNUpod, for example, is in Debian.) If you're gonna bash the iPod, at least get your facts right.

            • Re:iPod already killed for me (Score:4, Insightful)

              by humblecoder (472099) on Sunday October 31 2004, @09:18PM (#10682291)
              You are wrong about the iRiver only having "Free Mode" as you call it. This comes right from the iRiver website [iriveramerica.com]:

              Q. Why can't I upload my MP3 / WMA files from my iFP player?

              A. Due to copyright protection laws that apply towards our technology, media files (MP3 / WMA files) cannot be uploaded from an iFP player to a PC. All other non-media files (documents, images, etc.) can be uploaded to a PC from the iFP player.

              This seems more like your "Big Brother" mode to me.

    • Nothing is going to "kill" the iPod

      Used properly, this will. [pricegrabber.com]

    • Re:Kill the killer (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Trurl's Machine (651488) on Sunday October 31 2004, @10:44AM (#10678982) Journal
      Can we do away with the "iPod Killer" thing, it's old. Nothing is going to "kill" the iPod, it has establised itself as the standard for better or worse. It's like the Walkman. In fact, the iPod is the Walkman killer.

      With all due respect, sir, you seem to contradit yourself. If iPod cannot be killed because it's like Walkman - and iPod is also a Walkman killer... you can't kill iPod, because it is like something it has killed?

      Personally I think iPod can be killed, precisely because it is like Walkman. But I don't think that Yet Another Digital Music Player will be the iPod killer - I rather think it will be something as different as iPod is different from Walkman. Something based on entirely different technology, allowing - say - on-the-go wireless immediate purchase from online shop with even bigger choice than iTMS.

      PS. I'm a die-hard iPod fan, I bought three of them since the 1st gen; but I also owned several Walkmans...
      • "And to top it off: Ipod is to music what MS is to software."

        Whoa, that's some anti-Apple prejudice you got going on there. Let's see, for your statement to be based on facts instead of emotions, Apple would have to be threatening "to cut off the oxygen supply" of companies who sell competing mp3 players, charging companies more money unless they put "works best with iPod" logos on their web sites and catalogs, and actively trying to kill off competing firms.

        Don't confuse market share with predatory pr

          • So I have a choice of platforms too? Oh wait. No I don't. I have to use Windows media player running on "windows" to sync my MS certified device (read licensed) with the "Plays for Sure" logo on it. Some stores even require use of IE for windows. Sounds like MS has it's hand in it from end to end with also but with Apple, I would not be forced (if I was a PC user) to use their OS to use iTMS.

            I think you have confused yourself by the illusion of choice you think you have with WMA. Al those stores require M

        • I think you are confusing brand awareness with marketshare. One does not automatically translate into another.

          There have been various studies that showed Apple was one of the top brand recognized brands even before the iPod came out. Doesn't everyone in the western world remember the "Think different ads" or the switch campaign? Remember the original iMac series?

          People have been inundated with Apple ads and product placement in movies and television and yet it did not translate into sales. But it did in

  • $1200 for 24K? (Score:5, Funny)

    by meringuoid (568297) on Sunday October 31 2004, @09:59AM (#10678701)
    ... How much music can you fit in that kind of space? At one meg a minute, typical for MP3, that's... about one and a half seconds. Surely you expect a little more for twelve hundred dollars these days?
  • how any of these are "iPod Killers"... first of all, none of them have killed the iPod. Secondly, some do more, such as playing video, and probably put themselves into a different catigory. Thirdly, a gold played mp3 player is dumb.

    Also, they don't have iTunes or iTMS. Nothing is going to kill the iPod without the whole package.

    and f.p. b-otch.
    • Thirdly, a gold played mp3 player is dumb.

      Don't be ridiculous; if I had an ipod it would just clash horribly with my gold medallions and my extensive collection of gold rings, including that one that goes on all my fingers at once and has my name spelled out in diamonds.

      Some of us have style, man, and that's why we need the gold-plated mp3 players.

    • It's about design... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by JQuick (411434) on Sunday October 31 2004, @11:15AM (#10679154)
      Design is more than functionality. Design is more than features. It's not about interface, per se. It's not even (as so many claim) that it's about style in the sense of fashion.

      It's the whole shooting match.

      People who don't grok Apple, don't seem to get that.

      I had a can opener. A manual can opener, that I got for about 5 bucks in the early eighties. A maid accidentally threw it out several years ago. Only when it was gone, did I realize how wonderful it was. I searched off-and-on for months trying to find a suitable replacement. I bought 5 can-openers finding each to be annoying to use.

      I finally bought one that was about half as good from a mail order place in Great Britain (I live in the US). Nobody in the world makes a can opener like what I used to own. It was the right weight, and had a perfect gearing. It gripped the lid, and neatly dropped it in the trash. The balance, texure, and feel were simply superb. If I were an architect or other design geek, I would have realized how good it was long ago. As it was, only by comparison with alternatives did I realize how nice it was.

      The iPod, and other great designs from Apple, exhibit this kind of property.

      If you look at a checklist of features, look at particular aspects of functionality, price, or other attributes in isolation, they do not appear special. Through feel, and through use, they just seem right. As a whole, they simply strike many people as right.

      You're right, gold-plated, mpeg enabled, or cheaper, a true iPod killer would have to have the "whole package".

      What's tricky, is that this requires attention to the details of the design which most people are never actually aware. It will take a great deal to "kill" the iPod.

  • So many ipod killers (Score:5, Funny)

    by Norgus (770127) on Sunday October 31 2004, @10:01AM (#10678708)
    Yet the ipod isn't dead!

    I wonder if they got the sack.

  • Argh (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    It's Sweden, and not Sweeden.
    It's Jens's and not Jen's. Jens is a name for crying out loud.

  • $1200 for an mp3 player (Score:5, Funny)

    by jlefeld (814985) on Sunday October 31 2004, @10:07AM (#10678744)
    After spending that much money I don't have any money left for legal music.

  • iPod killers! (Score:5, Funny)

    by Peyna (14792) on Sunday October 31 2004, @10:08AM (#10678749) Homepage
    Did anyone else get the image of some serial killer known by the name "The iPod Killer" that managed to find someway to turn an iPod into a murderous device?

    If not, I blame Daylight Saving Time. (I just moved from a non-DST state to a DST state.)

  • bonus technology (Score:5, Informative)

    by v1 (525388) on Sunday October 31 2004, @10:10AM (#10678761) Homepage Journal
    Anyone else notice on the "Jens of Sweden MP-400", that besides being nicely compact, it's got an OLED (Organic Light Emitting Diodes) display?

    http://www.mp3newswire.net/Graphics/Jens%20MP400 .j pg

  • MPIO (Score:3, Interesting)

    by N8F8 (4562) on Sunday October 31 2004, @10:14AM (#10678787)
    I've had an MPIO FL100 since I bought it last christmas. MPIO/Digitalway, the manfacturer, does a better job than most electronics manufactures in updating the firmware. For a craction of a price, at least take a look [mpio.com]. The iPod is a sexy piece of electronics though.

  • dammit (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 31 2004, @10:28AM (#10678882)
    ogg vorbis seems to be becoming a pretty standard feature on these new portables. Now what am I going to complain about.

  • Dupe? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Vicsun (812730) on Sunday October 31 2004, @10:29AM (#10678888)
    I remember having read this 'ipod-killer' story before...



    DAMN THOSE EDITORS!!!

  • iPod killer? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Bastian (66383) on Sunday October 31 2004, @10:31AM (#10678895)
    Half of these don't even come close to competing with the iPod. The ones that play movies are more in competition with portable DVD players and Game Boys. [gba-video.com] Others just don't look like good buys compared to an iPod or iRiver. (Why am I going to pay $500 for a 1GB player when I can pay half that for a 6GB player that's not much larger?)

    Personally, I think that the thing that really makes the iPod, and which I have failed to see in any competitor, isn't iTMS or iTunes, or the sexy design, or even the fact that you can put a scratch on it by looking at it for too long. It's the interface. Starting with the jog dial (which I haven't seen on anything else. Scroll wheels don't count.) and going to the software UI, I haven't tried out another player that comes close to being as easy to use as an iPod. Heck, the iPod is so much more pleasent to use that I'd gladly take one over a player that sports 20 more GB, costs $100 less, and is HDTV-ready.

    • Re:iPod killer? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Have Blue (616) on Sunday October 31 2004, @11:20AM (#10679183) Homepage
      The jog wheel hasn't shown up on anything else because Apple patented it.

      The secret to the iPod's success isn't the ITMS, or the sexy design, or any other single feature. It was the way Apple managed to provide all those features at once and link them together in well-thought-out ways.

  • Killer My Butt (Score:5, Insightful)

    by feldsteins (313201) <`scott' `at' `scottfeldstein.net'> on Sunday October 31 2004, @10:37AM (#10678934) Homepage
    First, all the me-too music players seem to forget a few things. Like the fact that sometimes less really is more. It's not about who has the biggest hard drive, or the biggest screen with the most colors. It's not about who has the most features or even the lowest price. It's about hitting the sweet spot with regard to features, battery life, storage capacity, size and price. None - absolutely none - of these would-be iPod Killers has shown that they understand and can execute based on this principle. (And think back: what made the original Palm a success? Sweet spot. It's that simple.)

    The other thing that is often forgotten about the iPod's success is the fact that it's achieved damned near jewelry-level fashion accessory status. Put away all the jokes about Apple customers being Gucci-wearing fashion slaves. This technology is finally becoming ubiquitous enough to have to adhere to people's sense of taste and style. Like cell phones. Be glad. You want to make an iPod killer? It's going to have to be something people want to be seen with.

    Finally, Apple is in a really enviable position because of their online music store. They were the first ones to implement a DRM scheme that is both tolerable to most purchasers and most copyright holders, as well as providing a first-rate buying experience. The combination of the best portable player and also the best online music store is an almost unbeatable one-two punch. You want an iPod killer? It'll have to interface with a good - no, very good - online music store. One with a proven recipe for success.

    Just because Sony or Dell or iRiver or some other company announces yet-another-little-box-with-ear-buds-dangling-from -it doesn't mean we should start doing the job of their marketing department by tossing around the "iPod killer" label. I guess if we keep throwing this crap against the wall something will eventually stick. But you'll get no points for prognostication from me.

  • WiWJUTSM? (Score:3, Funny)

    by gelfling (6534) on Sunday October 31 2004, @10:41AM (#10678959) Homepage Journal
    which iPod would Jesus use to steal music?

  • This is what I want (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Wordsmith (183749) on Sunday October 31 2004, @10:56AM (#10679061) Homepage
    I've been looking for a while but there doesn't seem to be a player like this ...

    I'm envisioning a CD/MP3 Walkman-style device that can read audio off of burned DVDs. I would have imagined there would be portable DVD-Audio players capable of doing this, but I can't seem to find one.

    THe closest I can find are the portable DVD players that ALSO happen to support dvd-audio and mp3. But these are far bulkier than I'm looking for, and have far shorter battery life.

    I'm thinking a sub-$99 device that could double as a cd walkman, or, with a dvd in it, give me 4.7 gb of mp3s.

    anyone seen anything like that?
    • Sony makes one http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2003Sep/con20030 923021241.htm I have one. Too bad it locks up and hangs all the time and cost more like $250. And the little control widget is absolutely useless for managing a DVD full of MP3s. But it's a good start :)

  • Rio Carbon (Score:4, Interesting)

    by dchamp (89216) on Sunday October 31 2004, @01:02PM (#10679730)
    Odd that none of the 4 articles mention the Rio Carbon [digitalnetworksna.com] mp3 player. I just got one a week ago, and love it. It's a 5gb HD based player, smaller than the iPod Mini with more space, and the battery lasts up to 20 hours. Plus, you don't need to use iTunes / MusicMatch type software (although you can if you want to) - I just plug in the USB 2.0 and copy files to it.
    • I just plug in the USB 2.0 and copy files to it.

      Yet again, you don't get it. Plug it in and copy files to it? Most people don't want to have to work at the file system level to listen to music. iTunes lets them:
      • a) import their CDs
      • b) organize their music
      • c) make playlists
      • d) copy it all to the iPod with a single click

      USB 2.0 might be neat for you, but you're posting on Slashdot. The iPod's audience (normal people) don't care, and would in fact be irritated to have to use the file system. You're member #

    • The iPod supports WAV (Score:3, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      "Audio formats supported: AAC (16 to 320 Kbps), MP3 (32 to 320 Kbps), MP3 VBR, Audible, AIFF, Apple Lossless and WAV". http://www.apple.com/ipod/specs.html

All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective owners. Comments are owned by the Poster. The Rest © 1997-2009 Geeknet, Inc.